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Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by julianss on Sunday June 17, 2018 @10:59PM (#17335724)
I'm a Chinese American and I have experienced this type of behavior during the college admissions process, and during the hiring process with larger companies.

During the college applications process, I noticed I was receiving vastly different responses than my girlfriend (wife now) who was African American.

Perhaps you could chalk it up recommendations or personal projects. But my girlfriend and I were both A students that made the varsity swimming team. She was African American and had 5/7 full tuition responses including Harvard, Yale, and Columbia. While I only was accepted into Columbia, with partial financial assistance. We both wanted to attend Yale at the time and this put a dent in our future plans.

I have also experienced a similar scenario in the "pre-interviewing" resume selection phase, right out of college with no experience. My friend group noticed comparatively that those who were not White or Asian tended to get faster and more initial responses to schedule an interview. (I will note that this occurred exclusively when submitting for large Fortune 500 companies, and not for smaller business such as startups. Perhaps some selection bias) However after a while with some work experience on the resume, this doesn't manifest as much.

It is my belief that university admissions and diversity initiatives need to focus more on individuals than race. The goal should be equality of opportunity and evaluation rather than equality of outcome.

Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by IvyAdmisions on Monday June 18, 2018 @02:27AM (#17336305)
I was an ivy league admissions officer for a few years after college.

I promise you your application was viewed as "well, here's another really smart asian kid who's otherwise unremarkable from the other 1000 we'll see". Meanwhile, hers was treated like precious gold.

Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by sizzle on Monday June 18, 2018 @12:45PM (#17339653)
So what's the solution to the problem of not enough seats for x ethnicity when filtering out academic performance metrics?
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by MR4D on Monday June 18, 2018 @04:53PM (#17341611)
Replace the name, ethnicity, and gender of the person with a number.

If admissions can never see that information they are much less likely to be able to discriminate against it.

Of course, if someone doesn't like the result, and not enough black/asian/jewish/white/whatever kids get in, then someone sues.

But to me, this is the only way of making it on the merits. As soon as you introduce that information into the process, bias takes over.

Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by IvyAdmisions on Monday June 18, 2018 @05:26PM (#17341828)
The asians will still get rejected. They're not rejected for racial reasons. They're rejected because they submit uninspiring, cookie cutter applications en masse. This may be because of something in the asian culture. That's outside my expertise.
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by bedhead on Monday June 18, 2018 @08:58PM (#17342942)
There is a natural follow-up question: why might other races get rejected at high rates, albeit not for racial reasons (similar to your point)? I think there are questions that many people simply don't want the answers to.
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by sizzle on Monday July 02, 2018 @03:23PM (#17444612)
socioeconomic reasons
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by IvyAdmisions on Monday June 18, 2018 @09:45PM (#17343161)
Not touching that!
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by naveen99 on Monday June 18, 2018 @05:33PM (#17341861)
but asians are over represented at harvard...
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by IvyAdmisions on Monday June 18, 2018 @05:38PM (#17341886)
And they'd be WAAAAAY more overrepresented if the "Great Academics, Boring eveything else" applicants got in.
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by IvyAdmisions on Monday June 18, 2018 @03:35PM (#17341027)
Lawsuits like this, I'd imagine.

Also, waaaaaay more asians need to be running for Congress. It's getting better but they're still underrepresented slightly (4.8% of reps are asian while 5.6% of americans are).

Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by bedhead on Monday June 18, 2018 @08:27PM (#17342797)
Asians evidently are too smart to want to get involved in politics. Gotta respect that. (not joking)
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by gspetr on Tuesday June 19, 2018 @04:47PM (#17350181)
But Jews aren't?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_politi...

3/9 of the Supreme Court Justices are listed as Jewish.

Not sure what your argument is. The definition of "smartness" seems to be very subjective in this case.

Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by siosonel on Monday June 18, 2018 @08:45PM (#17342877)
This reply demonstrates the problem that an admission process is trying to address. The reply makes it seem like Ivy league admission is like a game to master for some students. Whereas graduates of top schools like Harvard are generally expected to become leaders who care about bigger issues, to have been informed by historical patterns and long term trends. These future leaders must know how to emphatize and care about much more than just getting ahead. (I'm an Asian, btw, if that helps inform the reader of where I'm coming from.)
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by IvyAdmisions on Monday June 18, 2018 @09:45PM (#17343157)
Agreed. Here's how I put it elsewhere in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17336374
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by bedhead on Monday June 18, 2018 @08:55PM (#17342926)
It was a comment about the quality of people that go into politics, nothing more. There is little incentive for smart, ambitious people to enter anymore.
Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by yorwba on Sunday June 17, 2018 @11:55PM (#17335929)
> The goal should be equality of opportunity and evaluation rather than equality of outcome.

In general, that will still require taking race into account. https://arxiv.org/abs/1610.02413 "Equality of Opportunity in Supervised Learning" discusses various fairness measures in the context of deciding loan applications based on credit scores. The issue is that you only know whether someone was qualified once they pay the loan back, and credit scores are not a perfect predictor of that, which on top of that is differently imperfect for different races. If you want equal opportunity (defined as "the probability of a qualified application being accepted is equal independent of race"), you need different thresholds to compensate for the different prediction error rates.

Re:Harvard discrimination lawsuit: data show penalization of... by mwnivek on Monday June 18, 2018 @01:03AM (#17336105)
> Perhaps you could chalk it up recommendations or personal projects. But my girlfriend and I were both A students that made the varsity swimming team.

I don't have data, but I would assume that many Ivy League applicants are straight A students with a varsity sport, so recommendations and personal projects (and luck) are actually very important for admission to very selective colleges.

You also noted a difference in financial aid, but note that Harvard, Yale and Columbia all state that their financial aid is based only on need, not on merit.