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Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by guyzero on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @11:13AM (#17294013)
Zoning can be an issue - there's an abandoned mall in Cupertino that's probably half a mile from the new Apple HQ. And to say it's prime land is an understatement - the entire area is desperate for new housing. Current proposal is for 2,400 housing units on the land.

But previous zoning proposal that were ballot initiatives got defeated (hurray democracy) and it's required a state bill to force the city's hand for zoning. (https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/community-reacts-to-d...) But still no agreement between the city and the developers.

I'm sure most malls will be trivial to rezone as cities would rather have something paying taxes rather than nothing but that's not the case everywhere.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by CharlesMerriam2 on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @12:10PM (#17294687)
I know that mall. The usual happened; developers wanted to build lots of housing and no infrastructure. The builder had recently reneged on elderly housing units in another development and were not believed about building a park on top of the structure.

Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by kcorbitt on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @12:23PM (#17294809)
> Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

And to close the circle, Prop 13 makes it impossible for towns in California to tax residents enough to pay for the required parks, schools etc. There is an obvious solution (repeal Prop 13, and bump local property taxes enough to cover the infrastructure the new residents will need) but it's politically infeasible.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by ianferrel on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @12:20PM (#17294785)
> Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

Are developers expected to build those? Don't cities build roads, schools, parks, and police stations with the tax income from the people who live in the houses?

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by vorpalhex on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @12:47PM (#17295087)
Can't collect tax income until people live there. Can't build fire stations or bus lines where there's no room.

We've had this problem with developers as well - they want to build mega high-rise apartments with no parking whatsoever and force the city to deal with it, despite the city struggling to fill current transportation demand.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by seanp2k2 on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:16PM (#17295444)
Crazy when apartments in the city have no parking and you have to factor in an additional $300/month for a parking space that might be a 10 minute walk from your apartment. It’s like US cities maybe aren’t actually the best in the world or something.
Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by bigpicture on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @02:56PM (#17296684)
> Are developers expected to build those?

Sure, maybe. Offering to build them for the city is a great way to build goodwill for your project.

If you want to see the ridiculousness of building in the Bay Area, however, you only need to compare this project with another large project proposal somewhere else:

https://chicago.curbed.com/2018/5/11/17340660/the-78-related...

This is nearly the exact same size parcel as the mall in Cupertino. But they are proposing 10,000 housing units and 13 million square feet of development (5x as much). The article calls it "surprisingly low density". But the plans include a new transit station, new roads, many acres of public space, etc. What it will come down to, though, is that the city will say "if you build this, we'll build that". The elementary school that will serve this development is already under construction. So it's likely that the developer will pay for at least half of the train station - it would be significantly more expensive than a school because it is underground at that point.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by seanp2k2 on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:14PM (#17295424)
Yeah, and to be clear, we’re talking “luxury” apartments here, not anything single-family. Bay Area developers ALWAYS pull this: promise “affordable” housing and only sometimes get stuck accepting affordable housing programs into their otherwise-expensive apartments. Examples of the developers who lost: https://www.lowincomehousing.us/CA/santa_clara.html

Btw: The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) defines "affordable" as housing that costs no more than 30 percent of a household's monthly income.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by duxup on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @11:58AM (#17294549)
I remember traveling to work to the valley for the first time and driving by Apple HQ just to see it and then, going to the steakhouse near that mall (OMG was it good). I went by that mall and was thinking

"WTF is this doing here with all this insanely expensive land and such!?!?!"

I would half expect the bulldozers to show up with 10 minutes notice or something. I was driving around all amazed by "OMG I know all these cool companies!" .... "What the hell...."

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by kirbypineapple on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @12:10PM (#17294674)
Was it Alexanders steak house? If so I did the same thing (drive by Apple HQ to see it and stopped at Alexanders).
Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by duxup on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @12:14PM (#17294721)
Yup Alexanders! So yummy!
Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by niftich on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @11:49AM (#17294413)
Residential vs. non-residential zoning always tries to tilt towards non-residential, because it has a better potential of return.

Although both pay property taxes and both require utility services like water, sewer, and waste collection, non-residential properties attract both in-town residents and outsiders from other jurisdictions, who then typically spend some money in your town. Meanwhile, residential attracts new residents, who may or may not take jobs in your town, could be spending money in other towns, but need high-cost social services like public schools and community programs in your town.

Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by touristtam on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:32PM (#17295643)
That explains why Edinburgh allowed the St james centre to exist right in the city centre instead of keeping the existing housing stock there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Centre. The whole thing has been pulled down and a mixed development should be take its place in the next few years (alreayd underway).
Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by seanp2k2 on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:18PM (#17295470)
Or even worse, they transfer their Prop 13 to a “replacement property”: https://blog.yonathan.org/posts/2017-10-transferring-prop13-...
Re:Mall landlords struggling to find takers at a price they’... by pofilat on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:34PM (#17295666)
Cities don't want housing. They want other cities to fund residents, while they extract their pound of flesh from business offices.