News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by toomuchtodo on Monday June 11, 2018 @02:48PM (#17287209)
Entirely accurate. At a startup, I expect to make ~$100k/year, have mediocre insurance and work life balance, and underwhelming equity (<1%). At my enterprise job (southeast US), I’m making double the salary, 20% annual bonus, five weeks/vacation a year, great work life balance, and much better health insurance for a family of four than any startup can offer.

Unless you’re a founder, I actively steer colleagues away from working at a startup. The sense of accomplishment, impact, or whatever the feel good term is, isn’t worth shorting yourself on significant comp for years (while founders and funds are getting almost all the upside).

Edit: If you want to compete, pay more and provide more equity with less risk. Throw “hire fast, fire fast” out the door; anyone who isn’t single and in their 20s can’t rely on a job like that. Maybe consider giving preferred shares to early employees as well, so they share in early liquidity events during pre-IPO/acquisition offerings.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by dbuxton on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:08PM (#17288061)
US healthcare is clearly a huge barrier to older employees joining startups.

At my company we have a great selection of healthcare that's fairly affordable both for employees and the company. I think it's as good or better than any packages I've seen from big brand-name enterprises. However, as a European founder, I was shocked by the complexity and effort that went into the comparison shopping necessary to get anything other than expensive, poor coverage. The quality of what's out there from JustWorks, Gusto, Zenefits et al was frankly shocking - and they are feted as "making it all easy and affordable". (We use Trinet which although in many ways antediluvian has very, very good health options at least for NY).

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by Balgair on Monday June 11, 2018 @08:58PM (#17289932)
> US healthcare is clearly a huge barrier to older employees joining startups.

It's a barrier to anyone with nearly any disability, chronic illness, or precondition (or with family members who may have them).

A friend's wife has to take medication that is classed as Tier 4 in California (least coverage). He has had to turn down many offers as he would then have to put the family on their own insurance, potentially costing upwards of $1200/mo. just for the one set of medications. As is, the meds are <$10/mo. on the insurance via their current employer.

US Healthcare is a giant hurdle for small businesses. We need UHC in the US.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by sjg007 on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:38PM (#17288346)
This is true but the logical implication then is why are there not more startups in Europe/Canada where healthcare is "free"..
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by Qworg on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:49PM (#17288452)
Other barriers to entry than healthcare - labor laws, cultural issues, venture availability, and more.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by user5994461 on Monday June 11, 2018 @07:48PM (#17289596)
None of this, the market is too small. No European country is comparable to the USA and its 300 million customers.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by awad on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @01:26AM (#17290912)
On the other hand, Shopify is a Canadian company with most of its business outside of Canada...
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by drb91 on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:34PM (#17287737)
Just to state the obvious, there are things to optimize for other than compensation (like happiness); ~$100k/year provides a comfortable life and saving opportunity in many (most?) parts of the country.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by toomuchtodo on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:36PM (#17287758)
Happiness doesn’t provide good health care to my wife and kids, or help me retire years earlier (I get to save >$100k/year because we live in a low cost of living area). I suggest a hobby if you want to be happy, as well as time with your family and loved ones.

Be careful about those who offer you emotional fulfillment or purpose in your job. There’s always a cost.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by pierre_d528 on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:47PM (#17287861)
So much truth in here... Specially for the "just funded" startups : they loose their souls fast when the investors start to get impatient. It's a trap in so many cases.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by Kratisto on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:55PM (#17287944)
So do you work remote to live in a low cost of living area? Just curious how many big salary opportunities are in low cost of living areas.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by toomuchtodo on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:10PM (#17288072)
I work remote because I demand flexibility. I live within 20 minutes of one of my org's offices, but prefer the ability to work from where ever I want. I just happen to enjoy the low cost of living locale I live in.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by driverdan on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:43PM (#17287828)
Very few YC startups allow remote work and a large percentage are in expensive areas like the bay.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by CodeCube on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:47PM (#17287862)
This is such a massive point right here ... there is so much talent, either already in "far flung" parts of the country; or currently in a place like SF, but who long to move "back home" for any number of reasons.

Having startups be more remote-friendly by default would be a huge boon for everyone involved.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by joejerryronnie on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:22PM (#17288184)
This might be the one and only competitive advantage startups can offer over the big (and even mid sized) tech companies now. As previously mentioned, the compensation is so large at the established tech companies, and the (mostly) false promises of startup wealth are largely debunked, that allowing all workers the ability to move to lower cost areas or back home but still work in a dynamic industry is very appealing.

One of the risks of remote work is the next opportunity. What happens if you land a great remote job, move your family across the country, and then realize the new job/boss/company is not a great fit? Right now, it can be a challenge to find a comparable position offering full time remote flexibility. But if all startups offered full time remote, then the network effect occurs, leading more candidates to want this option and opening up a larger pool of qualified applicants for startup companies to work with.

If YC could facilitate this industry trend, you could be helping startups with talent acquisition, helping workers establish better lives in lower cost locales, helping to spread tech talent and opportunities around the country, and helping the Bay Area (and other highly impacted tech hubs) ease some of the housing and transportation issues. If this is a successful startup trend, I guarantee the big tech companies will follow.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by yesimahuman on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:34PM (#17288311)
Agreed that this is a big competitive advantage that smart founders should take advantage of. Doesn't mean you need to go 100% remote, but by being flexible on location you offer a pretty compelling alternative to a big tech co salary.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by RestlessMind on Monday June 11, 2018 @07:50PM (#17289610)
Ah, but here is the rub. If you want to work remote, who would you rather work for? An employer as established as possible (with less risk of going under) or a startup which might not even be around next year? Being remote, new opportunities might not be easy to come by, especially if the startup folds due to an economic downturn which is affecting other startups as well.

While hiring remote makes sense for startups, working for a startup might not be the best option for remote workers.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by brianwawok on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:04PM (#17288026)
Sounds like you should found a remote friendly startup!

Plenty of money floating around. Find another remote friendly guy and go to town!

Seems how most remote friendly places have started...

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by minor3rd on Monday June 11, 2018 @06:45PM (#17289288)
I found a loophole to all this madness. I joined a company that was not remote-friendly, moved a couple hours away after about a year, and told them I'd be happy to continue working for them remotely. They obliged :)
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by brianwawok on Monday June 11, 2018 @09:08PM (#17289983)
Having been on both sides of this, this is usually career suicide.

Not to say you get fired, but you miss too much. You miss watercooler talk. You miss the invite to a new project. You get sent maintenance and bug work.

If you want to work a 9-3 and coast, sure. If you want to do cool stuff and move up the chain? Being remote in a local company is totally suicide.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by MoBattah on Tuesday June 12, 2018 @07:50PM (#17299098)
Pick me!
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by drb91 on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:34PM (#17288313)
This is true! However, there are still many quality startups elsewhere.

I’ll admit I would not choose to join one if they were to force me to live in SF and not give me a competitive salary.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by Illniyar on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:43PM (#17287822)
yes, but startups aren't really very good at optimizing for other things. The stressful nature of startups are usually bad for happiness.

Startups are really good at providing two things - a sense of being able to affect change and working on something novel/new (assuming you actually go with a startup that does something new)

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by drb91 on Monday June 11, 2018 @05:55PM (#17288954)
I’ve been reliably surprised with how many startup employees enjoy some level of stressful problem solving. Maybe it overlaps with being a workaholic to some degree?
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by sidlls on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:25PM (#17288219)
Those other optimizations select for financially independent individuals and young, single individuals coming from an affluent background. It's an oblique way to maintain an "old boys'" network and discriminate by age.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by mkirklions on Monday June 11, 2018 @03:24PM (#17287625)
I basically agree.

Unless you are a founder, go with the money.

Better Estimated Value.

Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by bitcoinmoney on Monday June 11, 2018 @04:03PM (#17288016)
How many years of experience do you have and what industry? Just trying to get a picture of your profile.
Re:Ask HN: Pros and cons of working at a startup in 2018? by toomuchtodo on Monday June 11, 2018 @09:27PM (#17290059)
18 years in tech, last 6 have been focused on Infra/DevOps.