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Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by otakucode on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:39PM (#17258176)
I have wanted for awhile to build a site which trained a machine learning system on the various data made available surrounding Congresspeople and information on members which were eventually found to be guilty of adultery or other similar crimes - then produce a score for every member of Congress rating how likely it is that they are cheating on their spouse, or taking bribes, or similar. Give them a sneak preview into the types of systems they are aiding and abetting in the creation of. I am uncertain of whether it could be considered defamation to have a brainless machine learning system decide there's an 85% chance some random member of Congress is an adulterer. I don't actually believe that any such system could ever reach any reasonable level of actual effectiveness due to the fundamental complexities of human behavior and circumstance, but that's not stopping the law enforcement side of things from moving forward so I don't see why it ought to stop the side trying to point out fundamental flaws in the strategy.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by cachemiss on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:57PM (#17258401)
I've considered something like that, but instead of trying to figure out crimes, it would produce a score for bills.

A corruption score for bills, almost like a facebook for bills "This bill is friends with Exxon". It would figure out who spent the most getting the bill passed, and who they bought off to get it.

Just a simple thing for people to point to when they say things are corrupt. Granted in today's environment, that score would be 100% most of the time, but it would be interesting to have some idea just who bought the bill.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by smt88 on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:33PM (#17258749)
Some of the coding-friendly news orgs like ProPublica have done one-off versions of this. It'd be great to have an ongoing tool to check the scores at any time.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by toomuchtodo on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:49PM (#17258318)
I’d take it a step further and ingest all public record data including using FOIA requests to find any behavior that could have a representative charged with a crime (fraud, bribery, etc).

As sibling comment said, don’t generate an adultery score. That’s not productive or decent. Find actual evidence of wrongdoing, not draconian scoring systems.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by thomasfortes on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:16PM (#17258587)
Some folks in Brazil did something like that, IIRC it's called project Serenata de amor, it uses machine learning to process public government data in search of weird and suspicious expenses and flag it.

Link: https://serenata.ai/en/

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by panarky on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:06PM (#17258483)
Let's take it a step further than that.

People already know who is corrupt, who is sexually harassing, etc.

Certainly their victims and co-conspirators know it. Probably their staffers, friends and family have a pretty good idea.

Often reporters themselves know who is dirty but don't have enough corroborating sources to get past the fact checkers.

So it seems like the Wikileaks model could be improved with a crypto market. Those in the know place bets on who is dirty and get a payoff when the dirt eventually gets disclosed.

It would be a nice incentive to get more disclosure, and it would directly reward the victims and leakers.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by mieseratte on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:20PM (#17258630)
Great idea, but let's drop the crypto and drop the gambling. Instead, crowdfund dirt that would constitute grounds for impeachment or recall for politicians.

Credible whistleblowers have additional incentive, and it would serve as a good yardstick for just how much folks detest a given official.

Alternatively we could take the crypto and go full Weimar Republic with a Kickstriker[0] clone for politicians!

[0] - http://kickstriker.com/

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by panarky on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:32PM (#17258737)
> let's drop the crypto

Hard to protect leakers, victims and funders when the perpetrators have the power to trace payments and seize assets.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by mieseratte on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:47PM (#17258904)
Sure let's get John and Jane Doe to acquire a secure crypto, securely access a website over Tor, and manage to maintain OPSEC. Then we can have them setup their own Dropbox clone with rsync and some trivial bash scripts!

Alternatively, we can create an easy-to-use site for the common man who is willing to pony up some petty cash for whatever their version of "justice" is. At sufficiently high levels, in sufficiently corrupt societies they can trace things down and disappear you. This idea isn't for those places, and likely wouldn't even work anyway.

However, in nations with reasonably sound rule of law this could potentially work.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by smacktoward on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:17PM (#17258604)
> adultery or other similar crimes

Adultery is not a crime.

(You can argue that it's an indicator of a person's character, or lack thereof, sure. But that's something different.)

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by raleec on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:42PM (#17258853)
citation please. (It is in 21 states in 2017)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery#United_States

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by smacktoward on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:46PM (#17258889)
Today I learned!
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by X6S1x6Okd1st on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:39PM (#17260982)
> Note: Minnesota's statute applies to both partners if they are both married. If one partner is unmarried the law only applies to the married woman. The law does not apply to a married man and unmarried woman.

That's pretty terrible.

Also the legend is pretty amusing:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/U.S._Adu...

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by panarky on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:27PM (#17258698)
Lying about it is an impeachable offense.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by X6S1x6Okd1st on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:36PM (#17258795)
Lying is not an impeachable offense, however perjury certainly is.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by foota on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:34PM (#17258774)
*to a court only though, no?
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by smt88 on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:29PM (#17258712)
Only under oath
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by coldcode on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:32PM (#17258741)
I believe it is in New York.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by cellshade on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:32PM (#17258740)
That depends on the state.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by smt88 on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:31PM (#17258731)
It's disturbing to me that you're so focused on adultery, which isn't a crime in most places and is a personal matter for the couple involved. More than 70% of people cheat on a significant other at some point, so you'd be casting a wide net.

Why not instead look at real crimes like pay-for-play, fraud, sexual assault, etc.?

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by otakucode on Thursday June 07, 2018 @07:54PM (#17261410)
Everyone seems to be missing the point completely. I am not talking about building an adultery detector. I am talking about an object lesson. I am talking about showing Congress that the systems they are building in order to profile, label, and categorize the public based upon spurious statistical models are dangerous. Congresspeople are myopic, selfish creatures. If it doesn't affect them personally, they see it solely as a matter of "is it more power for us? Then the vote is yes!"

Adultery was picked because it is a very common behavior which is nonetheless viewed very poorly by society. It's the kind of thing which historically gets politicians into trouble. Being named as an adulterer is a realistic thing for a politician to fear, as it could ruin their life - the way getting labelled a terrorist or a pedophile or similar will be a reasonable thing for a citizen to fear when systems are debuted that use the same technology to label people with a likelihood score. That is why adultery was picked. If you wanted to do by pay-for-play where would you get your training data set? Where are the people who have actually lost their office because of that? The others are the same. We have a long history of politicians getting busted for adultery, so we can have a good training dataset. And the results will be garbage and useless. That's the whole and entire point. Once you have an automated system built, it doesn't matter whether its conclusions have any merit. It will hand out judgements, no one will be able to explain what basis they actually have, but investigations will be targetted and reputations will be destroyed.

My intent isn't even to accomplish any of that reputation destruction, it is simply to show Congress the ill use such systems can and will be put to.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by mxuribe on Friday June 08, 2018 @07:44AM (#17264380)
Even if only to prove your point correct with 1 or 2 examples, this would be a great system to create! Let congress feel the pain that so many citizens unfairly feel.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by jonbarker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:09PM (#17259128)
There's a non-moralistic reason to be concerned with adultery in the case of politicians and public servants, which is that knowledge of it can be used for extortion.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by DoreenMichele on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:14PM (#17259175)
Well, there's two sides to that. The other being they may be using their position of power to strong arm less powerful people into an affair, then discrediting their lover to cover their ass. Even if you don't care about that person being mistreated, it tells you something about their general priorities and how likely they are to be generally corrupt.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by walshemj on Thursday June 07, 2018 @05:12PM (#17260315)
That's only because its a crime striking those laws down and removing them from the military system - would reduce the attack surface for bad actors trying to suborn people in to betraying the USA.

Likewise having a spiff 18 months ago at burning man or glasto isn't really a huge risk to security if its not a crime - would also help with recruitment for TLA's

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by gowld on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:53PM (#17259598)
That's why it's important keep gay people out of Congress, too?
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by otakucode on Thursday June 07, 2018 @08:01PM (#17261458)
They wouldn't care if you are gay. But if you are closeted and gay, that becomes something you can be blackmailed over and you will fail to get a security clearance. I don't know what they do when someone who can't get a clearance is elected... but the only reason they ask about lifestyle factors in background investigations is to determine if you're able to be blackmailed. If you're open, then obviously you can't be blackmailed with the fact you're gay or polyamorous or in an open marriage or whatever. It's the secrecy that's the problem. (This is all off-topic though, since I don't actually care about adultery and I don't think the system I'd build could legitimately catch anyone for adultery. It would do nothing but show that peoples reputations can be so easily smeared with basically no evidence using these sorts of systems. That's the point.)
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by deaps on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:58PM (#17258418)
> I don't actually believe that any such system could ever reach any reasonable level of actual effectiveness due to the fundamental complexities of human behavior and circumstance...

Absolutely it could - that would all be factored into the percentage. Human behavior and chance encounters are the exact reason you could never say 0% or 100%, however.

Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by otakucode on Thursday June 07, 2018 @07:58PM (#17261439)
How many nodes do you need in your neural net in order to account for the variation of human behavior, the influence of happenstance, etc? When your model fails to converge, do you tell your government customer that you can't actually produce a score and give back the $200 million or whatever you got for the contract to create such a score?
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by danso on Thursday June 07, 2018 @06:09PM (#17260749)
Which existing public data sets would you be using to train against?
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by sbarker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:00PM (#17258434)
How about score them on how they really vote. "You say you're a democrat but our party detector test says that is a lie!" 83/17
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by lurker10000 on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:49PM (#17259571)
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by bhhaskin on Thursday June 07, 2018 @02:28PM (#17258708)
That is a dangerous idea. Do you really want everything to be so black and white? Vote down the party lines or else?
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by sbarker on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:33PM (#17259406)
No, I just want to see who says they are a hard R or D and really vote middle of the road. Perhaps the site could let me vote too to see where and or who I agree with best.
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by gowld on Thursday June 07, 2018 @03:52PM (#17259587)
Re:How The New York Times Uses Software to Recognize Members... by dominotw on Thursday June 07, 2018 @01:49PM (#17258313)
> produce a score for every member of Congress rating how likely it is that they are cheating on their spouse

Sounds like a really mean spirited thing to do. They are people too.