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Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by harimau777 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:23PM (#17251611)
Sort of a side issue, but something I've never understood: According to http://fortune.com/2017/06/29/google-2017-diversity-report/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States, 56% of Google employees are white compared to 77% of the US population. Doesn't that mean that racial minorities are actually overrepresented at Google? Or am I understanding the statistics wrong?
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by Lazare on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:54PM (#17251808)
In American terminology, minority status depends on your "racial category", "ethnicity", and your gender, among other things.

There are six officially recognised racial categories: White, African American, American Indian/Alaskan Native, Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Other Pacific Islander.

There are two official ethnicities: Hispanic and Latino Americans, and Not Hispanic and Latino. (Note: Hispanic is actually a cultural group, not an ethnicity, and in the real world the terms hispanic and latino are orthogonal. Try not to think about it too hard)

Most hispanics and latinos are officially categorised as white. That means that whenever you see the term "white" you'll need to do some further digging to see if that means the official "white term (including most hispanics), or if it's a short hand for "white, non-hispanic and latino". The 77% you cite as "white" includes latinos; the number you probably are looking for is 61%. The 56% in google's numbers seems to exclude latino's, so the comparison is probably 56% to 61%. (Probably!)

Also note that if your goal is equity for all groups, it doesn't make much sense to average minorities together. The Hispanic and latino group (including both whites and non-whites) makes up 18% of the US population, but the apparent matching group at Google makes up 4% of their employee base. Conversely, Asians make up about 5% of the US population, but apparently around 35% of Google's employee base using the closest equivalent measure. Clearly Google shouldn't get a pass for discriminating against hispanics (if that is indeed what they're doing) purely because they discriminate in favour of Asians (if that is indeed what they're doing).

> Doesn't that mean that racial minorities are actually overrepresented at Google?

Some (well, one) are. Others are not. Non-hispanic white's are broadly in line with the major population share.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by toasterlovin on Thursday June 07, 2018 @11:59AM (#17257027)
Really great comment.

With regard to Asian overrepresentation and Latino/Hispanic underrepresentation, I think there's a really good chance that how those respective immigrant groups came to be in the United States probably has a large role to play in this disparity. East and South Asian immigrants have to cross an ocean to get here, whereas most Latino/Hispanic immigrants could cross a land border (on foot in many cases!). The disparity in wealth required to pursue these alternate immigration paths probably significantly skews the class mixture of these groups and, thus, their representation in white collar professions.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by oh_sigh on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:30PM (#17251665)
Only two very special types of racial minorities are over-represented - Indians and east asians(specifically Chinese) are overrepresented relative to their US population.

These groups are generally forgotten about or elided when talking about how Google or US tech has a diversity problem - there is just a diversity problem with blacks, latinos, and women, and my hunch is that it has nothing to do with tech being racist or sexist and has everything to do with either larger structural issues in the US, or people choosing through free will to not enter the field.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by jiveturkey on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:38PM (#17251707)
Then you haven't read enough on the matter. All STEM fields have a problem, but other STEM fields pale in comparison to tech's racism/sexism.

As a hunch, yes I used to be of that opinion as well. I thought it was nonsense. Sorry that I don't have the data handy to back it up, but seriously (not being snide) if you care enough to matter you can research it.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by oh_sigh on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @11:28PM (#17253026)
I have researched it and have come to the exact opposite conclusion. I don't know what data you are referring to, but I hope you aren't just taking low representation to directly imply racism.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by cleanyourroom on Thursday June 07, 2018 @12:03PM (#17257077)
Since world class engineers are perfectly distributed throughout the population regardless of age, sex, race, education, interest, and geography, it is a travesty that Google doesn't look like a random sample of Americans.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by trjordan on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:26PM (#17251629)
White Americans includes hispanic and non-hispanic.

In particular, though, the only over-represented group is asians: 35% vs 5%.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by rubicon33 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:29PM (#17251655)
Really? Every form I've ever seen has had a separate check box for "Latino / Hispanic"...
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by harimau777 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:39PM (#17251713)
I think often there's an option for race and then a separate option for Latino/Non-Latino. I would guess that most Latino people would probably be White and Latino, although its not something I'm super knowledgeable about.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by Lazare on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @07:05PM (#17251883)
Most people in the "Hispanic or Latino" group would also be in the "White" group, although there are not insignificant numbers of black or asian hispanics.

Also keep in mind that in official US usage that term basically means "someone from a Spanish cultural background OR a Latin American country". Although some agencies specifically exclude countries from Latin America without a Spanish or Portuguese culture.

So a white guy whose grandparents immigrated from Spain counts (the grandparents spoke Spanish), and a Quechua from Bolivia who recently immigrated and only speaks Runasimi counts (Bolivia has a Spanish culture), and a black guy from Guyana might count. The OMB says no (Guyana was colonised by the British), but the Census says yes (it's in South America, so close enough).

The system makes very little sense.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by adventured on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:36PM (#17251694)
It's not uncommon. The 77% figure quoted in the top comment includes Hispanics ("White Hispanics"). The White non-Hispanic population is 62%.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by tathougies on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:33PM (#17251676)
Although to be fair, Asians constitute 15% of the population of California as a whole.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:28PM (#17251644)
East and South Asian minorities are greatly overrepresented compared to their proportion of the US population as a whole.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by ProfessorLayton on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:34PM (#17251678)
Seeing as most of Google's technical workforce is in CA, specifically the Bay Area, it would make more sense to compare to compare to the population surrounding HQ rather than the US as a whole.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by sonnyblarney on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @10:31PM (#17252802)
It would make even more sense to compare to those with relevant education:

Though Asians are only 5% of US, they are maybe 1/3 of Tech degrees, which is consistent with Google hiring.

Similarly for women.

Very roughly, Google seems to be selecting in a fairly unbiased fashion from the candidate pool.

Where the issue gets more sticky is at upper levels of management, which are fairly male dominated.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by harimau777 on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:47PM (#17251765)
Good call. According to: http://www.bayareacensus.ca.gov/bayarea.htm it looks like 52% are White (42.4% White and Non-Hispanic), 23% are Asian, and 6% as African American. So this would suggest that the difference between Google and the Bay Area is still significant but not as much as between Google and America as a whole.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by adventured on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @07:02PM (#17251861)
There are two plausible arguments there.

You either have to go one step further and break that down by available tech talent to be recruited, with the premise being that you can't magically manifest a certain % of white/hispanic/black/asian tech employees if they're not available locally (eg if the population is 12% hispanic, but only 5% of the tech employees available locally are hispanic; that presents a very difficult recruiting scenario).

Or the argument is that a company like Google can afford to recruit nationally and relocate whatever demographics they see fit to the bay area, such that local restrictions do not apply as much to them. If the local bay area pool of tech talent is 3% black, and the national pool is 6% black, Google can afford to relocate black employees from around the US to bolster their diversity efforts locally if that's their aim.

Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by euyyn on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:46PM (#17251752)
On the other hand, I'd say most of the population surrounding the Google HQ are there because they got employed by Google or another tech company, not the other way around. The pool of candidates for these companies is global (restricted to the quotas the visas allow).
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @10:38PM (#17252831)
That isn’t true historically, it definitely wasn’t true in the late 19th century when Asian immigration to the bay area started, nor after the Vietnam war. The Bay Area has attracted Asians way before google or even tech existed there.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by euyyn on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @11:05PM (#17252942)
Well of course. I was just counterpointing to my parent, that comparing Google employee demographics to the demographics of the area around HQ doesn't really tell us anything.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by masterleep on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:35PM (#17251691)
Asians don't count because argle bargle word salad.
Re:Alphabet shareholders reject diversity proposal backed by... by shiado on Wednesday June 06, 2018 @06:35PM (#17251686)
It's best not to bring a rational numerical argument to the table in an area of contention that is owned exclusively by irrational emotional reactions about which groups in society are perceived to be the most disadvantaged. The fact is you can't really have a discussion when every party comes to the table with different feelings instead of numbers.