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Re:Scrum disempowers developers by some_account on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @09:41AM (#17187534)
I really dislike agile. A product owner asked me once if I get some benefit from them...and no, I don't. Thry get a lot of benefit from me sharing what I'm doing because they can then keep track of it and communicate it to other people, but I don't get any benefit personally.

I want to be the guy who talks to the rest of the employees, implements things and get direct feedback from them. I dont want anyone in the middle of that. It just complicates everything and makes me less connected and known in the company.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by jon-wood on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @10:21AM (#17187847)
For a long time I felt that way as well. There are days when I still do, and this is from my current perspective as a tech lead who spends ~50% of their time in meetings with other parts of the company.

Sadly once a team scales up past a certain size its not practical to have developers also going out, finding out what people want built, and handling all the feedback on that. You need someone (or a team of someones) gathering the often conflicting requests coming in, and prioritising them against each other.

Having said that, I do believe once a piece of work makes it to a point where people are likely to start working on it the developers who will be doing that work should be involved in the process. They should understand not only what is being requested, but also why its being requested, in my experience that often results in them suggesting alternative solutions that either bet solve the problem, or provide a 90% solution with significantly less cost. It also gives them the context needed when deciding on technical trade-offs involved in different design choices.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by vannevar on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @10:03AM (#17187693)
I want to be the guy who talks to the rest of the employees, implements things and get direct feedback from them.

How exactly does agile prevent you from talking to your teammates and getting feedback from them?

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by betenoire on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @10:20AM (#17187835)
If I have a full and well-groomed backlog waiting for me at my desk, what's there to talk about? Sure, you can, but the the whole point of the PM is to take that off your shoulders and the parent is saying he doesn't want that lifted from him.
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by vannevar on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @10:33AM (#17187943)
A well-groomed backlog is not working code. So I don't get how that somehow means there's nothing to talk about. If there's an agile MVP, it's "write some working code, get feedback on it, then repeat until everyone's happy within some tolerance." Scrum is designed to increase feedback, but it's a floor, not a ceiling.
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by betenoire on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @10:54AM (#17188141)
Sure, but the PM is there for a reason and the PM has roles. There is overlap with what developers can be doing, but we are trained/encouraged to punt to the PM for such decisions, questions, and suggestions.

I get it, but it's now how I do my best work, proxying questions and discussions through a gatekeeper.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by vannevar on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @11:23AM (#17188401)
We do agile, but also use Slack and email, and walking across the room. If your organization is actively discouraging communication within the team unless it goes through the PM, that's bizarre. On the other hand, if the PM is acting as a gatekeeper with customers, that's not unusual. The reality is that you can't have everyone on the team talking directly to the customer, for a whole host of good reasons.

Regarding decision-making, that can be a problem---some PMs and product owners are micromanagers, hamstringing their team. But they would be micro managers with or without agile.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by majormajor on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @02:31PM (#17190250)
IME the PM works best when acting as a shield from random questions or future things or other not-important-this-instant distractions, but shouldn't block direct clarifying questions or feedback from you to a stakeholder. I'd keep them in the loop, but the ones I've worked with haven't wanted to just be a glorified "I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to!" middleman for basic things like that.
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by alexchamberlain on Friday June 01, 2018 @08:30AM (#17204648)
As a tech lead in a Scrum team, this shield causes more problems than it solves in my experience. We often get questions missing context or find out about a decision too late to provide meaningful input on a technical level.
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by some_account on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @12:47PM (#17189257)
Team mates are the ones I'm working with all the time. I don't need scrum processes to talk to my team. A good team knows how and when to share information.
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by geezerjay on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @01:43PM (#17189800)
> Team mates are the ones I'm working with all the time. I don't need scrum processes to talk to my team. A good team knows how and when to share information.

Scrum processes are just a way to ensure that no stakeholder, including team members, is left out of those talks, left in the dark, or left unheard. Having a clique single-handedly and unilaterally dictating changes without communicating them or listening to any stakeholder doesn't serve anyone's interests. That's how projects fail.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by vannevar on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @02:06PM (#17190023)
A good team knows how and when to share information.

True. Scrum is a floor, not a ceiling. Nothing prevents the team from going above and beyond the daily standup and the sprint review in terms of communication, and I've never been on a team that didn't communicate a lot more than that. But doing that standup every day ensures that there is at least a minimum of communication, every day.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by decode on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @06:12PM (#17192361)
I'm pretty sure that when he says "the rest of the employees" he means what Scrum calls stakeholders, not members of the development team.
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by gregmac on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @10:24AM (#17187875)
I want to be the guy who talks to the rest of the employees, implements things and get direct feedback from them. I dont want anyone in the middle of that.

Part of little-a agile is making changes and adapting -- it's literally in the name. If you have a process in place that prevents you talking to the people you need to talk to, change or delete the process.

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by maxxxxx on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @11:01AM (#17188203)
"I want to be the guy who talks to the rest of the employees, implements things and get direct feedback from them"

I am the same way. I much prefer talking to users directly and come up with a solution instead of having a middle man. But I have noticed that a lot of devs much prefer somebody filtering things for them. I guess to each his own...

Re:Scrum disempowers developers by srtjstjsj on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @11:46AM (#17188645)
Why haven't you told your manager that you are willing to do your job plus the product owner's job for only your pay plus half the product owner's pay?
Re:Scrum disempowers developers by s73v3r_ on Wednesday May 30, 2018 @01:37PM (#17189743)
Because that just doesn't work. It sounds clever, but in reality, it would get you laughed out of the office. And then the PO finds out that you offered to get him fired, and now the working relationship is ruined.