News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by matte_black on Monday May 28, 2018 @09:15PM (#17175744)
We’re going to end up with some HIPAA like regulations on collecting data and it’s going to be a massive pain in the ass.

The scary part is the big companies will have the money to lobby for regulations to be written in a way that is easy for them to comply with while shutting out smaller companies and startups.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by Analemma_ on Monday May 28, 2018 @10:51PM (#17176122)
> We’re going to end up with some HIPAA like regulations on collecting data and it’s going to be a massive pain in the ass.

Yes, that's the point: at the moment, vacuuming up every bit of data is essentially free, so companies take a maximalist approach to it, and aren't paying nearly their fair share of the resulting externality costs. Personal data storage needs to become costly enough that companies are forced to decide if it's actually worth it.

I would also add that, just like every other time an industry failed completely at self-regulation and just ran wild until public outrage forced the government to step in, this wouldn't be happening if companies had been responsible. But CA and Experia and Unroll.me proved that was never a possibility.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by Mirioron on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @12:03AM (#17176404)
Didn't a lot of this privacy stuff start in the EU because some of the politicians didn't like the fact that it's big American companies that are getting all the business, while Europe had basically none of them? You can still see this attitude during Zuckerberg's appearance before the European Parliament when he was asked to name a European competitor to Facebook to show that Facebook is not a monopoly.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by ahartmetz on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @05:41AM (#17177714)
How do you think that GDPR is the optimal way to achieve... Well, what exactly are you saying is the goal? You are only alluding, thus letting everyone complete your argument with whatever they may find most credible.

IMO, it's that a) people in EU care more about privacy and b) the political influence of the data processors in question isn't as strong as in the USA.

b) (with swapped roles) is the reason why the diesel emissions cheating and the FIFA bribery cases were investigated in the USA. They were open secrets, but nobody did anything about them in their countries of origin because of regulatory capture.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by Mirioron on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @10:10AM (#17179296)
You can't really say that people in the EU care more about privacy, because it's the EU that brings this action. In the EU we have very poor participation in EU parliamentary elections and the commission is picked in ways that most people don't seem to understand. The 2014 EU parliamentary election had a voter turnout of 42.54%.

The other thing is that the EU parliament has some internal political shuffling that most people aren't even aware of. I don't know anybody in real life that can name even one of the parties (or groups) in the EU parliament. It's very difficult to say that they're definitely doing what the people want.

>How do you think that GDPR is the optimal way to achieve... Well, what exactly are you saying is the goal? You are only alluding, thus letting everyone complete your argument with whatever they may find most credible.

Simply make it more difficult for established/outside companies to target the EU market. It's not a conspiracy, so there isn't like a step by step plan that could be taken by the EU to actually do this. Only some people and groups in the EU seem to be really interested in something like this.

[dead]
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by dmitriid on Monday May 28, 2018 @11:31PM (#17176261)
You mean "the maximum applicable fine" in case you "willfully abuse data".
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by Mirioron on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @12:00AM (#17176383)
Which could easily happen if the person levying the fine doesn't like you. In some countries the data protection agency has a whopping dozen to two dozen people working at it total. In other words, if it so happens that you don't get along with them then there's nothing stopping them to be harsher on their enforcement.

You can't ask them for advice either. They'll tell you that they're there for enforcement.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by teddyh on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @03:35AM (#17177145)
Please don’t project your local level of government/societal corruption onto the rest of the world – in this case, the EU.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by Mirioron on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @10:13AM (#17179317)
My local level of government has this less than two dozen people working in the data protection authority. That is why I'm worried. They are the ones that will be enforcing this whole thing here.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by guitarbill on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @12:36AM (#17176530)
It's not only wrong, but also very insulting to suggest there's no due process in the EU.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by Mirioron on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @10:37AM (#17179506)
I'm not saying there is no due process, but it definitely is massaged in some parts of it. In the country I mentioned according to the statements of the Ministry of Justice the conviction rate is 99%. Out of 100 cases that go to trial only 1 gets a 'not guilty' verdict.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by dmitriid on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @04:33PM (#17182720)
That country is Russia perchance? Because that's statistics for Russia.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by anfilt on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @12:23AM (#17176483)
Exactly, when I saw the amount for a breach. I almost spit out my coffee. Heck this is the low-level fine:

"The lower level of fine, up to €10 million or 2% of the company’s global annual turnover..."

That could crush smaller companies, but for large companies it's a slap on the wrist.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by lovich on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @01:40PM (#17181311)
The minimum fine is 0%. Stop spreading FUD
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by anfilt on Friday June 01, 2018 @05:28AM (#17203818)
I was reading straight from the document. I never said minimum either.

This is straight from Article 83 of GDPR: "Infringements of the following provisions shall, in accordance with paragraph 2, be subject to administrative fines up to 10 000 000 EUR, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 2 % of the total worldwide annual turnover of the preceding financial year, whichever is higher"

Moreover the next fee level is: "20 000 000 EUR, or in the case of an undertaking, up to 4 % of the total worldwide annual turnover"

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by downandout on Monday May 28, 2018 @09:39PM (#17175830)
This law applies only to data brokers in Vermont. From the article:

Data brokers in Vermont will now have to register as such with the state; they must take standard security measures and notify authorities of security breaches (no, they weren’t before); and using their data for criminal purposes like fraud is now its own actionable offense.

It defines data brokers as businesses in Vermont that buy and sell data on people with whom they have no direct relationship. Seems like a reasonable law - unlike GDPR, they aren’t trying to reach outside of their jurisdiction, they aren’t trying to wipe out entire business models, there are no absurd fines, it’s easy to know if you’re violating it (because you would know that you have setup a data brokerage in Vermont), etc. My guess is there are only a handful of “data brokers” as they define that term within Vermont, so this affects very few people.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by niftich on Monday May 28, 2018 @09:57PM (#17175905)
Your reading that they define 'data broker' as a business in Vermont is not substantiated by the text of the bill [1].

Some excerpts that define some key terms:

"(2) "Business" means a commercial entity, including a sole proprietorship, partnership, corporation, association, limited liability company, or other group, however organized and whether or not organized to operate at a profit, including a financial institution organized, charterd, or holding a license or authorization certificate under the laws of this State, any other state, the United States, or any other country, or the parent, affiliate, or subsidiary of a financial institution, but does not include the State, a State agency, any political subdivision of the State, or a vendor acting solely on behalf of, and at the direction of, the State.

(3) "Consumer" means an individual residing in this State.

(4)(A) "Data broker" means a business, or unit or units of a business, separately or together, that knowingly collects and sells or licenses to third parties the brokered personal information of a consumer with whom the business does not have a direct relationship."

[1] https://legislature.vermont.gov/bill/status/2018/H.764

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by downandout on Monday May 28, 2018 @10:06PM (#17175944)
What you’re not understanding is that this is a state law. They can only regulate the activities of businesses that operate within their own state.

They use the broad definition of a “business” because in the US you can be incorporated in Delaware and actually operate in Vermont. This is actually a common thing - most US corporations are incorporated under the laws of either Delaware or Nevada but operate within their home state. But the state only has the ability to regulate the actual operations of businesses operating within Vermont.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by geocar on Monday May 28, 2018 @10:42PM (#17176088)
There's lots of ways a Vermont court could apply their laws to a Delaware corporation operating out of Delaware: Renvoi, significant contacts test, "better rule" test, and so on.
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by matte_black on Monday May 28, 2018 @09:41PM (#17175842)
I didn't stand up for the data brokers because I wasn't a data broker, etc.. etc.. when they came for me, there was no one left to stand up... etc
Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by quantum_magpie on Monday May 28, 2018 @10:01PM (#17175921)
This quote only works when you're using other neutral, but unrelated-to-you parties.

Data brokers are scum. They do not produce any value, they do not improve the society, they have no positive effect on anyone. No reasonable person should stand up to protect them from liability.

Re:Vermont passes first law to crack down on data brokers by lovich on Tuesday May 29, 2018 @01:43PM (#17181343)
Agreed. The "didnt stand up for [x]" quote only works when we are passively letting groups be hurt. I would actively help to destroy this business model if possible