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Re:Ask HN: Client won't pay me my invoice and disputed Paypa... by Someone1234 on Thursday May 24, 2018 @03:09PM (#17147244)
Honestly nothing about that seems very professional from either side. You called him names, he called you names, and everyone's feelings got hurt. That sounds like one of those "friendship" business arrangements.

Agreeing to equity might muddy the waters. Equity is worthless, but by agreeing to it in lieu of a fixed amount, you've set a value. So you likely aren't getting 17K but may get the equity you agreed to in writing (assuming you haven't already).

Hopefully your invoices contained a due date, and your contract a clause allowing interest or penalty on late payment. If he is passed due, continue to send him notices but do them via tracked postage (and include interest if applicable).

If you plan to sue, which it sounds like you'll need to, start getting everything in writing. No more phone calls at all.

If he ignores your late notices get a lawyer to write a letter giving him a final settlement amount before the suit is filed, and then have them file if he ignores it.

A layer will take this, but expect them to take the lion's share. It still might make financial sense, even based on the settlement figures you yourself suggested in the OP.

By the way:

> After him shutting down communication, I reached out to his investors, which got him talking again.

I'd make sure to honestly tell the lawyer exactly what you said to his investors, a countersuit for defamation could ruin the case (make it cost-not-viable).

Re:Ask HN: Client won't pay me my invoice and disputed Paypa... by spoiledtechie on Thursday May 24, 2018 @03:35PM (#17147493)
Thank you. I agree. It is not professional. I didn't call him names, but I would say feelings got hurt.

Equity won't happen now.

There was no contract. It was verbal mainly.

Thank you for the final settlement amount. I appreciate that advice!

I don't really care about the money now, rather the principle that he can't renegotiate invoices when he feels like it. His integrity is lost.

Defamation for what? For speaking to his investors? I sent them notice that I was informing them. I didn't want to threaten them. But I guess by notifying his customer base and buyers, it could be seen as that?

Cost-not-viable. Appreciate you lining that up!

Re:Ask HN: Client won't pay me my invoice and disputed Paypa... by where_do_i_live on Thursday May 24, 2018 @03:52PM (#17147663)
If you don't have a written contract, and everything was verbal - you don't have a chance whatsoever to sue and come out victorious.

It sounds like unless you can pressure the individuals involved, a judge will be a sore disappointment. Feel free to talk to a lawyer, but no lawyer will take this case unless you pay them upfront and they will likely tell you that you are going to lose this and its not worth your time/money.

Re:Ask HN: Client won't pay me my invoice and disputed Paypa... by nate_meurer on Friday May 25, 2018 @01:07PM (#17155706)
Any agreement, whether written or verbal, is legally binding so long as it's mutual, voluntary, and not fraudulent.

Pure verbal agreements are obviously much more difficult to evidence, but any physical evidence whatsoever that indicates the existence and form of an agreement -- even text messages between the two of you -- will readily bind the parties in court.

Re:Ask HN: Client won't pay me my invoice and disputed Paypa... by xstartup on Friday May 25, 2018 @07:30AM (#17152518)
Nothing having a contract does not mean everything is lost. Many people are giving this advise, "oh but you don't have a contract".

Even if you don't have a contract It does not mean someone can keep your money.

As long as you can prove it's your money which is unlawfully kept hostage, you can sue.

Re:Ask HN: Client won't pay me my invoice and disputed Paypa... by mcv on Thursday May 24, 2018 @04:32PM (#17148140)
If there's no contract, does he own the code? Did you write code? Without a contract, it might still be yours. Is it enough to take away his business?

I'm not saying that you should, but it's worth keeping in mind and discussing with your lawyer.