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Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by raverbashing on Friday May 18, 2018 @07:23AM (#17100500)
Yes and there's nothing saying I won't be arrested and thrown into a cell for the rest of my life if I say something incorrect by mistake when entering the US.

There's nothing that says IRS won't prosecute you if someone buys you a soda and you don't declare it as income.

Or that you won't be prosecuted by someone in the US if your blog has a copyrighted image and you don't receive a DMCA request that was sent to you.

See how ridiculous that sounds?

All fines can be administratively and judicially appealed.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by dwild on Friday May 18, 2018 @10:09AM (#17101583)
> I won't be arrested and thrown into a cell for the rest of my life if I say something incorrect by mistake when entering the US

For the rest of your life? Source please?

You can be put temporarily into a cell for plenty of stuff but that's temporary. A fine is pretty permanent and when it can be millions, well that's probably the end of your business too.

> There's nothing that says IRS won't prosecute you if someone buys you a soda and you don't declare it as income.

Isn't it simply paying back what you should have + interest? (with some threshold)

Paying taxes is already part of the cost of running a business too (and that's a pretty low cost for a startup, versus having an actual trained DPO).

> Or that you won't be prosecuted by someone in the US if your blog has a copyrighted image and you don't receive a DMCA request that was sent to you.

Which is exactly why you try not to put copyrighted image over your website. Most of the times PII isn't something you can just avoid for a business.

> All fines can be administratively and judicially appealed.

Any appeal represents a cost. A cost that you can't always support until the end.

At the end, it's all about the cost of the risk... that's it. GDPR seems a pretty high cost.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by ProblemFactory on Friday May 18, 2018 @12:20PM (#17102645)
The IRS is probably the best US example of "proportionate punishments" and why people should not be overly afraid of GDPR.

The tax laws are vastly more complex than GDPR. The maximum penalties for tax fraud seem to be $250,000 + cost of prosecution + 5 years in jail.

If you make a small mistake on your taxes, and the IRS notices, you will probably receive a warning and have to repay it with interest. If you make a negligent mistake, you may be in addition be fined a small percentage, like 10-20%, of the amount you failed to declare. You have to conduct very large scale and intentional tax evasion for the maximum penalties to apply.

The IRS could argue for and try to apply the maximum penalties for a lemonade stand, but they don't. And people go on with their lives, put in their best effort to comply, and can be confident that they will be treated fairly.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by 8note on Friday May 18, 2018 @01:06PM (#17103057)
nothing requires you to be let out of those cells. All those people in Guantanamo are going to die there.
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Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by raverbashing on Friday May 18, 2018 @07:37AM (#17100579)
You're right, laws in Europe are uncivilized, maybe that's why they have the highest rate of incarceration in the world.
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Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by fbelzile on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:34AM (#17100887)
I think you've got it backwards. GDPR is bringing civility back. I think it's great legislation that favors peoples privacy over business profits made by invading that privacy. As a business owner myself, I'm glad something like GDPR came along. I think it better reflects the society I want to live in.
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by oblio on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:19AM (#17100794)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Elcom_Ltd. ?

The guy committed an "US crime" in Russia, where what he did was not illegal. He arrived on US soil, where he committed no crime.

He was still arrested and charged.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by downandout on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:41AM (#17100937)
That’s one guy in one case (that was eventually dismissed). There are probably a few handfuls of other examples you can post here. It doesn't hold a candle to the millions of people and businesses liable under the GDPR who face a nasty framework of foreign laws with no limits on fines other than $10/20 million.
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by oblio on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:43AM (#17100948)
Go read the law again. Read what the friendly people are answering in this whole sub-thread started by you.
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by ethelward on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:07AM (#17100736)
Or, you know, just block European clients from your service if you don't agree to our laws?

It's not like if the US laws didn't have any extraterritoriality.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by downandout on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:17AM (#17100780)
It's not like if the US laws didn't have any extraterritoriality.

This is a disingenuous argument. The US has never passed a law that is this easy to violate outside of its own borders, is this ripe for abuse, and carries such enormous penalties and burdens for essentially everyone in the world that wants to operate a website. In fact, no country has ever done this before.

GDPR is different, and not in a good way.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by dragonwriter on Friday May 18, 2018 @09:06AM (#17101107)
> The US has never passed a law that is this easy to violate outside of its own borders, is this ripe for abuse, and carries such enormous penalties and burdens for essentially everyone in the world that wants to operate a website.

The US has clearly passed many laws that meet all those criteria but the last (and with much harsher, often criminal rather than merely financial, penalties), so unless you believe that operating a website is somehow a unique class of activity deserving special protection from extraterritorial application of laws, this is a pointless comparison.

And there's actually a number of US laws affecting website operators that arguably meet all three criteria, as other comments point out.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by donkeyd on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:38AM (#17100917)
> The US has never passed a law that is this easy to violate outside of its own borders

The US has a law requiring US citizens living and working outside of the US to file taxes in the US. Not doing that is a crime. You'll probably argue that this is different, since it concerns American citizens, but it isn't different, because it's a US law that is very easy to violate outside of its borders.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by amaccuish on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:41AM (#17100936)
Lol, the US has FATCA which makes it very difficult for fin-tech startups to work with americans. I'm an e-resident of Estonia, and almost all financial services state they cannot serve US clients.
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by raverbashing on Friday May 18, 2018 @09:02AM (#17101080)
*FATCA ;)
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Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by amaccuish on Friday May 18, 2018 @09:23AM (#17101200)
Except that FATCA's sole purpose was to raise money, and the US isn't even compliant itself. FATCA is a whole different ball game to GDPR, and I don't recall the complaints from Americans when EU instituions were forced to implement it. In addition, the costs for implementation of FATCA were huge. Most people are halfway there with GPDR compliance already, unless they're doing something they really shouldn't have been doing.

GDPR is not a money making mechanism but a way of forcing compliance. I think that's the difference that many US people don't seem to understand.

Also I was responding to the comment that the US has never done anything like this, which is completely false, US people tend to forget what it's like for the rest of the world.

Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by fbelzile on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:46AM (#17100973)
Right, which is why my Canadian business doesn't have to follow COPAA /s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Pr...
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by DanBC on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:08AM (#17100738)
You make it sound like US laws don't extend outside the US. Many of them do.
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by yls on Friday May 18, 2018 @08:28AM (#17100841)
Nope. Read the law and check on how many countries have extraterritorial reach in their laws...
Re:GDPR: Don't Panic by barry-cotter on Friday May 18, 2018 @07:58AM (#17100687)
Many countries believe their law applies extraterritorially. The US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act applies to any company that does any business in the US. A German director of a Canadian company that pays a bribe to an Ethiopian government official can be prosecuted under the FCPA if they set foot in the US. Sweden will prosecute citizens, and I presume residents, who purchase the services of a sex worker abroad. I don’t believe Kim Dotcom ever set foot in the US before the New Zealand government arrested him on foot of a US extradition warrant.