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Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by ucaetano on Thursday May 17, 2018 @04:52PM (#17095621)
Directed or not at large companies, it applies to all companies.

It introduces a fixed cost for operating with any user-related data, which effectively kills any companies operating below that cost.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by skrause on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:08PM (#17096476)
From my German perspective this whole GDPR panic is so interesting. The GDPR is basically a carbon copy of the data protections laws that have evolved in Germany since 1977. Yet we still have many thousands of small companies dealing with data, individuals running web forums etc.

It's especially funny when small to medium German companies suddenly panic because of the GDPR and when you look at their situation all you can say is "yeah, you should have implemented that 15 years ago, it's already been German law that long".

In Germany not much will change, but at least companies like Facebook can no longer just move to another country with worse privacy laws (like Ireland) and call it a day. For us the GDPR means that protecting user data will no longer be a competitve disadvantage. But if you're a small company and handling data reasonably, the GDPR won't hurt you anyway.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by tobltobs on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:33PM (#17096698)
Data Protection Officer, right to be forgotten, data exportability, ...

Can you hint me to one of those German laws which do require one of the above?

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by skrause on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:49PM (#17096831)
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesdatenschutzgesetz

It literally translates to "federal data protection law" and has been German law since 1978. In certain conditions it has also mandated a DPO (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenschutzbeauftragter) since then, but in fact the first DPO position in Germany was created in 1971.

The right to be forgotten is mandated by article 35 BDSG (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bdsg_1990/__35.html).

The right to a data export is mandated by article 34 BDSG (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bdsg_1990/__34.html). It has always been common use this law to get a free copy of the data which our credit reporting agencies have about you, I've done that multiple times.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by tobltobs on Thursday May 17, 2018 @07:15PM (#17097023)
Thank you for those detailed links. They are kind of eye opening, and I am German. However, it is hard to understand how stuff like GEZ, Schufa and article 35 can exist concurrently in the same country.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by skrause on Thursday May 17, 2018 @07:26PM (#17097107)
Schufa (the biggest consumer credit reporting agency in Germany) and article 35 can certainly co-exist. In fact you can write to Schufa and request that they delete all your data.

However, if you do that, good luck ever getting a mortgage, credit card or other post-paid services ever again if all credit report requests come back with the reponse "no data available". So I wouldn't recommend that.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by cesarb on Thursday May 17, 2018 @07:43PM (#17097252)
> However, if you do that, good luck ever getting a mortgage, credit card or other post-paid services ever again if all credit report requests come back with the reponse "no data available". So I wouldn't recommend that.

How does that work for people who never had a Schufa history? If for instance I decided to move today from Brazil to Germany, would I be unable to do all these things there, since they would have "no data available" on me?

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by skrause on Friday May 18, 2018 @02:34AM (#17099162)
The reports for people who are just new in the system and for people who had their data deleted by request are different.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by ahakki on Thursday May 17, 2018 @09:24PM (#17097904)
You‘ll still have access. Probably at a higher rate.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by tobltobs on Friday May 18, 2018 @02:41AM (#17099188)
There are thosuands of horror stories how the Schufa isn't able or willing to correct wrong data. And no data protection agency in Germany did ever brought such a case to a court.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by KirinDave on Thursday May 17, 2018 @08:08PM (#17097455)
What do you imagine that fixed cost to be? Delete your logs and don't, you know, make an entire business out of misrepresenting your revenue model and you're most of the way there.

Any business that is shut down by GDPR is, to me, a good business to shut down.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by ucaetano on Thursday May 17, 2018 @08:13PM (#17097490)
> What do you imagine that fixed cost to be?

Compliance. It doesn't matter if you delete your logs, if you had them in the first place you're subject to compliance.

Like the example in the article. Not sure why people are still thinking this doesn't happen, this is exactly what is happening in the article.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by Y_Y on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:06PM (#17096458)
Maybe companies that are so flimsy didn't have long left anyway.

You're required to have a fire safety officer at these companies too, but it's not a full-time position.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by ucaetano on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:23PM (#17096610)
> You're required to have a fire safety officer at these companies too, but it's not a full-time position.

AFAIK, most of the "safety committee" regulations usually have waivers for small companies.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by Sean1708 on Friday May 18, 2018 @10:00AM (#17101503)
Well that's terrifying...
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by kasey_junk on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:22PM (#17096599)
I think this is a legitimate cultural difference.

I’m fairly left leaning for a US citizen & find the idea that the default should be big companies abhorrent.

But I recognize my bias & am not st all convinced it’s in any way objectively correct.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by jacquesm on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:09PM (#17096487)
If your businessmodel does not allow for the proper dealing with the information it collects you shouldn't be in business in the first place.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by ucaetano on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:14PM (#17096532)
issue isn't the business model, is the size. For a large company, handling GDPR is trivial. For a startup or small company, the cost is prohibitively high.

I'm not arguing for or against it, just pointing that the resulting unintended consequence is protecting large companies. Exactly the opposite of the original intent.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by jacquesm on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:23PM (#17096606)
> For a startup or small company, the cost is prohibitively high.

Nonsense. I look at another high tech data driven start-up every week and not a single one has stated that the GDPR costs are 'prohibitively high'. Sure, there are some that need to do more work than others (medical, ad tech). But on the whole companies that were already doing their best to not fuck up with their customers data have very little to do in order to get to where they should be and the remainder has a bit more work but will mostly likely be more-or-less compliant by the 25th and what work remains will be done long before the eye of Sauron will turn their way by virtue of their size.

The cost is strongly related to the size of the organization and the amount of sensitive data you hold as well as whether or not you were a bad steward of the data in the past.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by hvidgaard on Friday May 18, 2018 @03:40AM (#17099402)
I'd go as far as saying that if you responsibly handled data before GDPR, what you have to do to be GDPR compliant is document the process and make it possible to delete data upon request.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by tobltobs on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:35PM (#17096707)
> The cost is strongly related to the size of the organization

There is a correlation between the number of GB you store and eg. how many DPOs you require?

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by jacquesm on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:50PM (#17096834)
No.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by matthewmacleod on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:24PM (#17096616)
I actually think it's entirely the other way round.

A small business or a startup should have a relatively limited amount of data capture, and that data should be stored in a relatively limited number of places. In most cases, it should be straightforward to make sure that this is documented and appropriate controls are in place.

On the other hand, large companies have vast quantities of uncontrolled data gathering that nobody is responsible for.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by jacquesm on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:28PM (#17096656)
Spot on. The biggest problem cases are hospitals, banks, insurance companies, airlines and - funny enough - governments. They all hold mountains of data and the systems are old and in many cases no longer maintained by anybody that was there when the system was first created.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by s73v3r_ on Thursday May 17, 2018 @07:35PM (#17097178)
People keep saying this, but I flat out don't believe it.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by klmr on Friday May 18, 2018 @05:24AM (#17099931)
Suit yourself. But as mentioned elsewhere, the equivalent of GDPR has been law in Germany for over a decade, and small businesses have had no problem complying.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by s73v3r_ on Friday May 18, 2018 @03:27PM (#17104258)
I meant I don't believe that it's going to be anywhere near as much of a burden to implement or comply. I guess I responded to the wrong person?
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by prepend on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:37PM (#17096720)
Is a single person running an app as a hobby a business?

If I want to put an open source app in the App Store, that’s not a business model for me. It’s more just personal expression.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by ucaetano on Thursday May 17, 2018 @07:00PM (#17096910)
> If I want to put an open source app in the App Store, that’s not a business model for me. It’s more just personal expression.

Try convincing a regulator of that.

But it doesn't matter, you're still logging PII. GDPR doesn't make any distinction of profit vs. non-profit vs. personal ownership. You're as liable as an individual as an organization.

Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by genma_it on Friday May 18, 2018 @06:04AM (#17100147)
Your personal expression is writing the open source software and putting it on GitHub. However, once you make it available as a service, you should be responsible for it.
Re:GDPR: Removing Monal from the EU by afpx on Thursday May 17, 2018 @06:47PM (#17096810)
If a company’s margins are so razor thin that they can’t compete (with other regulated companies), then they may want to rethink their business model.