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Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by majormajor on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:47PM (#17087685)
Rent control to reduce uncertainty for people already living there isn't a lottery odds thing - it's not a solution to the problem of hard to find new places, it's a solution to the problem of getting priced out by external forces.

It has side effects, but is also addressing a specific problem people want to handle that isn't necessarily fixed by "just build a bunch of new market-rate housing."

Weakening rent control in the 90s in CA didn't prevent the current homelessness problems, so I have some skepticism around taking that even further. Pushing people who could afford marginal housing into no longer being able to afford it seems like a bang-up way to increase homelessness.

Part of the root of the problem seems to be cities that trying to both avoid densifying but also increase commercial and office space and occupancy and jobs. Either policy would be fine by itself, but they explode when put together. Some cities are slowly starting to realize this, but saying "we don't need a constant economic growth rate of X% if we don't want the feel of our city to change" may not be an easy choice for politicians to sell.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by nerfhammer on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:17PM (#17087866)
It's a lottery in that if you are lucky enough to have a certain kind of lease already you deserve to get cheap rent for life but not if you don't already have a certain kind of lease. It's not something you qualify for by falling into a condition where you need it or it stops when/if you no longer need it. I know plenty of people that became quite wealthy and of course still get rent control.
Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by majos on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @08:59PM (#17087753)
Good point. I was thinking of this from the perspective of people who can't afford to live in place x, not people trying to avoid being forced out of place x by rising rents.

I'm not well-versed in the state of rent control in CA, but I am seeing more rent control put forth as a viable alternative to just building more residences. That strikes me as a bad idea.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by roenxi on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:16PM (#17087861)
> It has side effects, but is also addressing a specific problem people want to handle that isn't necessarily fixed by "just build a bunch of new market-rate housing."

It is a sad fact of life that the best outcome for everybody is to let the economically productive take first pick of any available resources; because they will by definition take them and turn them into more resources.

This idea that someone has a right to live somewhere because they were there first is not unreasonable, but the path of least suffering is that people pay the market price for rent.

There needs to be pretty overwhelming evidence that the problem is with what consenting adults agree to rather than the government being unreasonable with the rules on constructing new building. I'd bet that the US hasn't reached that threshold yet.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by Chinjut on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:29PM (#17087942)
It is very much not a "by definition" truth that the people who, say, happened to snag nice tech industry salaries for their coding abilities (or their visionary decision to process credit card transactions online, or whatever their particular thing is...) will be more "productive" and make more "resources" out of having a house than people who happen to have lower salaries.

This is just self-aggrandizing "The folks life has already financially favored deserve every continued advantage over everyone else because they are so smart and talented and God's chosen ones" market-over-everything nonsense.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by pjmorris on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:51PM (#17088070)
> It is a sad fact of life that the best outcome for everybody is to let the economically productive take first pick of any available resources;

Which is to say that the people who create money (what's more economically productive than willing money into existence?) via issuing credit (banks) or borrowing on the US's account (the Fed) will have first pick of available resources.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by majormajor on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:23PM (#17087907)
Why does the market price in one city need to be several times higher than in another? Why do so many of the high-paying tech jobs need to be concentrated on the west coast instead of more distributed? Are the benefits of that concentration truly higher, and truly purely rational "path of least suffering," in order to justify all the costs of it?

You also make an distinction between what consenting adults agree to in contracts and what those same consenting adults do in local governance and regulation. But why wouldn't they have the right to say "we don't want buildings over three stories here," say? Why is that necessarily "unreasonable" yet a landlord deciding to raise someone's rent 40% wouldn't be?

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by twoodfin on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:46PM (#17088039)
“They” don’t own the buildings, but the landlord owns his. If no one wants to pay an additional 40%, he gets to pound sand.
Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by zamazingo on Wednesday May 16, 2018 @09:25PM (#17087916)
> It is a sad fact of life that the best outcome for everybody is to let the economically productive take first pick of any available resources

That is not a fact of life, it is simply a hypocritical way of legitimizing monopolistic advantage. What one defines as economically productive will unequivocally align with the groups one favors over others.

Power is not natural, it is created and reproduced, and naturalized beyond the realm of critical thought by false claims to the facts of Life.

Does life really as facts? Which life?

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by closeparen on Thursday May 17, 2018 @01:11AM (#17088891)
“Economically productive” isn’t a subjective interpretation. It’s what produces the most money. In a society we tax productivity and use the revenue collected to run services that lift up those at the bottom. More money is available for redistribution when we are collectively more productive. Suppressing productivity in the name of fairness is highly satisfying to a large contingent of politically active folks who are passionate about it, but better outcomes can usually be purchased with the tax revenue it brings.

Case in point: neighborhoods that are proud of themselves for thwarting evil developers in the name of affordability end up with fewer affordable units, because we fund affordable units as a percentage of total construction.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by pas on Thursday May 17, 2018 @03:57AM (#17089593)
Don't forget to price in, account for, factor in, and otherwise adjust the numbers to match externalities, other market irrationalities, sesonalities, etc.

For example, if SF wants to solve housing (providing shelter) by municipally mandated equality between purchasing power of people, this has a certain cost, and this has a certain appeal for some residents. Would they pay more taxes to get council erected units for the less fortunate? Maybe. So these preferences have to be calculated and priced.

Sure, the market would get the most new units online in a given time, which would result in prices falling. But it seems like SF wants an apmost centrally planned solution.

Re:The American Housing Crisis Might Be Our Next Big Politic... by kei929 on Thursday May 17, 2018 @10:31AM (#17091522)
Which these days means mostly ephemeral resources.

They save the tax cut and buy back stocks.

They are not starting farms to create more food or building new kinds of companies — not doing economic net new things. They’re growing their own ephemeral wealth pile

The old ways, best ideas, they have all died out in human society. No longer do we worship Roman Gods and build pyramids for Pharaohs

It’s hubris and and vanity to think we have the iron clad solution today in our time

We’re just carrying water for dead and selfish

Consenting adults who have been told this is exactly right their entire lives by government backed research into propaganda models gifted to university and media and advertising will I’m sure magically come to their senses