One thing though:. She has described to me some of the male coders as being "creepers".

When I asked for specifics, she couldn't provide them. She simply stated it was a "feeling".

The one commonality I found with the creepers is that they are pretty clearly below average in looks. The question is whether this is a correlation or a casual factor.

But definitely challenged her to try to focus on actions rather than "vibes".

https://twitter.com/ekp/status/991817194987114496

I frankly found this shocking and absolutely disgusting.

There are geeks and bros and attractive and unattractive men in both columns; but geeks who aren't good at decoding and reacting appropriately to subtle social cues tend to trigger this reaction more often than bros whose social facility masks an underlying lack of respect for bodily and emotional autonomy.

You’re dealing with another person sharing something that is probably emotionally difficult for them to say. I’d suggest a subtler approach than immediately busting in with the evidence requests. It’s a slower process which is neither immediately believing or disbelieving the accusation but taking it seriously. Being open to the possibility and seeing where it leads rather than shutting things down because it’s uncomfortable. Because presumably the woman is also someone you know that you wouldn’t want to be hurt as well.

Between that and "skip the females" this account has gone beyond garden-variety flamewar into uglier incivility and I'm going to ban it. Twice in one thread is more than a slip.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and email us a reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

But thanks for assuming.

It's both. There was, in our ancestor's state-of-nature, a very high social and reproductive opportunity cost associated with the worst possible actions of a "below-par" male. This would have been true even before the advent of language. Furthermore, note that the opposite of the above is true with an "above-par" male. I think this explains a lot of female behavior with respect to men who are more and less attractive.

One question there was along the line "What would you do if a boy you don't know came next to you and said you are pretty". One answer was: "If he was cute I would make out with him, if not I would yell: Get lost freak".

Later that same woman described (to another woman) that the man had been "creeping on her calendar". If it weren't for society's deference to women's feelings, that would probably be read as a hostile comment.

If you're a man go into public with a woman and get her to cry. Measure how long it takes until someone angrily asks you "what did you do".

[0] adult men also cry, but when they do so in public it is usually interpreted in radically different fashion...

Something society doesn't accept that attraction plays a huge role in social development at a young age. An "ugly" person is not likely to develop the experience needed to feel comfortable befriending a member of the opposite sex at a young age. The other person can't help but be uncomfortable with the idea that you might be romantically interested in them.

It gets better with age though. I've found that telling women I'm married makes them much, much more friendly and engaging.

When one of the consequences may be an uncomfortable conversation with the dean or with HR, it is completely unsurprising that male nerds will not make the first move socially. They have been trained to not do it.

Every last behavior that is rewarded as "flirting" from an attractive person is punished as "creepy" when it comes from an unattractive person. The best an ugly can hope for is to suppress their natural social grooming behaviors, and just be relentlessly neutral. It's much better than "creepy", as it still allows for a level of acquaintanceship that makes it possible to display non-physical qualities, such as a particularly well-developed skill, or a sense of humor.

"Go befriend a girl... it's not creepy." is something only a non-ugly person would think to say. Of course it's not creepy for them. Parent post is absolutely correct. If you're not pretty, it's creepy. If m'lady wants a friend, m'lady may approach on her own terms.

Don't worry about befriending anyone; but recognise that you have a little leeway to make small-talk to any human before it becomes odd. Use it (with everyone) for practice at getting funnier and more charming. Have fun practicing, let results take care of themselves.

Something similar goes for becoming less "unattractive". Don't worry about your body shape, but learn to enjoy exercise (perhaps you do this already). Or with fashion and personal grooming, figure out what you like and so develop your personal style as you bathe and dress each day.

Anyways, a week later the rest of our team moved in, placing themselves at the other end of the room from where we were sitting. So the other day my boss approached me and said: hey look, why are you sitting here? Move to us. Yay, now I'm sitting in the corner and I can talk to nobody!

Long story short, WTF. Other people make sure you feel creepy, if don't do already.

Women often have to go by their gut instinct with guys, because if they don’t it can end in them being very badly hurt. Any heuristic is likely to generate false positives. Someone who is very anxious or socially awkward may come across as dangerous simply because of the heightened emotional state and failure to respond to social cues. It may also be that there is a strong correlation between “socially awkward” and “unattractive” for obvious reasons.

So again, I wouldn’t assume that looks represent cause rather than correlation. For an analogy, it could be like someone who is afraid of dogs being disproportionately bitten by dogs who react to the fear that person has of being bitten.

Hell in some countries, you get called creepy for doing that for trying to befriend anyone outside of very specific social situations. When I was in Stockholm, approaching strangers and striking up a conversation was seen as generally rude.

Many people can significantly improve the first impression they make by having a nice haircut that fits your head shape and clothes that fit your body shape well, match each other well, and aren't out of place for the current season.

Apparently you don't care if you are perceived as creepy, which is fine, but other people do care and would be interested in doing something about it.

I spent most of my time as a kid screwing around with computers and other whatsits, so I was really withdrawn and socially awkward after high school, and gave off the kind of accidental creeper aura that people here are talking about. (A mix of shyness, over-sharing, nonexistent small talk, and bad body language.)

Then I took a break from the tech industry for a while and ended up getting a job as a climbing instructor. It was an amazing change in a short period of time. I learned how to socialize quickly and easily with people I'd never met before, went out for beers, learned how to show people that they could trust me with their safety or their kid's safety really fast (because kids' birthday parties were a big revenue stream...).

Any kind of job or hobby that requires you to be social to do well at it should work just fine. (Retail and food service don't count.)

I'm sure there are people who are so naturally awkward that this is useless advice, but I suspect there are far more people who could benefit from spending more time around people than they do around electronics.

Next, you'll be claiming that those who suffer racism should cultivate less racial intentions.

* My privilege * My attractiveness * My style * My social skills * My life experiences * GP's actions * GP's experiences

Not having a woman be attracted to you is not systematic oppression, or even oppression at all. No one is entitled to the attention or affection of another. People are, however, entitled to be treated with dignity and respect regardless of their race or gender.

Anyway, you're an obvious troll. Your profile even says so. So I'm done with this conversation.

Any ethical person knows that no one is entitled to affection. No one has suggested otherwise.