Re the cult thing: I read an eye-opening paragraph about it somewhere. Basically, yeah, if you've invested in it, you have to either fool everyone else to buying into your cult, so the price will rise and future-you can cash-out and make a profit, or more likely, you're trying to convince yourself that past-you wasn't an idiot that just burned a lot of money. Or worse, you've convinced yourself that the USD will turn to toilet paper, soon, soon!

It's applying the formula of the shit book "The Secret" ("if you want it really hard, the universe will give it to you") to getting rich...

This is why I think that the buttcoin subreddit is one of the better places to learn and have an honest discussion about bitcoin. Sure,its not that main purpose of that subreddit and there there is still some bias, but the bias is nothing compared to the alteratives

Fiat money loses purchasing power by design. This rate has accelerated when governments need to raise money. They have been seized overnight.

In 2020, Bitcoin will inflate slower than most fiat currencies. The culture enforces that this rate will not increase arbitrarily. Storing it in a digital safe you control will prevent seizures.

Are fiat people living in a cult or can they present arguments in good faith?

>I feel like bitcoin people live in some kind of alternate reality that I simply don't understand.

I can tell. You seem to think Bitcoin is another inflationary currency.

The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that.

>How is it at all revolutionary since you've basically gone and re-invented a much shitter version of the credit card and traditional (evil) fiat banking.

Like I said, Bitcoin is rare and digital. I think you are complaining about payment processing companies. I have had an excellent experience using these companies with no fees on instant transactions.

> There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever.

Provably false. Bitcoin has been forked into multiple chains numerous time, creating many more then 21 million tokens. Given that there is no trademark on the term "Bitcoin", some of these forks can rightfully claim themselves to be The True Bitcoin.

In addition, there are thousands of other non-forked blockchains that are nearly identical to bitcoin, save for a few minor configuration changes.

> Bitcoin is rare and digital.

Absolutely false. Bitcoin is digital and infinitely creditable. This has been proven over and over again.

> Provably false. Bitcoin has been forked into multiple chains numerous time, creating many more then 21 million tokens.

This is absurd. You could say the same for the dollar and the canadian dollar. You seem to think a new currency devalues every other currency.

i think you're arguing semantics. if most people dont view the forked chain as valid and prefer the original, then a new bitcoin isn't created per se.

That's why BTC's value went down when BCH forked, right? Even a moderately successful fork will hurt BTC's value.

It actually went up, somehow.

Your original point was correct, you dont understand Bitcoin.

"The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that."

What I don't understand is how you think your are insulated with bitcoin. If Trump does something so catastrophically stupid that USD is worthless, what will be the effects on the worldwide economy? How will bitcoin insulate you from something like the 07 recession, it won't make finding a job easier. At least the gold peppers can claim there is some value left in gold in a hypothetical nuclear post apocalypse, BTC instantly becomes worthless without widespread internet access. Without network access, what value is in a blockchain?

> How will bitcoin insulate you from something like the 07 recession, it won't make finding a job easier.

Obviously you're not 100% protected, but you're more protected from anything that doesn't affect the entire world.

Or do you think that holding dollars exposes you to an Amazon bankruptcy just as much as holding Amazon gift cards?

> BTC instantly becomes worthless without widespread internet access. Without network access, what value is in a blockchain?

Have you looked around at the world you live in? If network access ceases to exist the entire economy will collapse, I don't think Bitcoin is your biggest worry there.

> China doesnt have control over bitcoin.

I thought China had over 50% of the mining power

mining power doesn't let you break the Bitcoin consensus rules, like the limit of 21M BTC.

>The excitement is that, Donald Trump doesnt have control over Bitcoin. China doesnt have control over bitcoin. No government does. People with computers have control over it. There are 21,000,000 Bitcoin ever ever ever. No amount of awful government can change that.

It's already banned in some countries, and many tax it. Evading those laws comes with risks, so many or most people comply. Exchanges end up being forced to hand some data over to the IRS/others. Overall, governments seem to have control over it nearly the same as they have control over the trade of anything else.