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Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by badpun on Friday May 04, 2018 @04:08PM (#16997847)
A lot of the tech industry is about burning through investors' money in search of new profitable ideas. I'm guessing there's much less investor money in Canada.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by pembrook on Friday May 04, 2018 @04:45PM (#16998163)
"Burning through investors money in search of profitable ideas" has nothing to do with it. There's this huge misconception on HN about the size of the venture capital market. Start-ups are a miniscule portion of the tech economy by any measure of value.

The reason engineers make so much money in the US is the public market giants like Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, etc. The combined market cap of FAANG is fluctuating around $3 trillion right now. That's about 2X the entire GDP of Canada...in just 5 American companies.

No large-ish tech company in Canada is near that level of profitability or size. Combine that with currency fluctuations and with the greater tax/regulatory burden of having a full-time employee in Canada, and you will never have a Canadian company that can afford to pay engineers $250K+ en masse like FAANG can.

Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by adventured on Friday May 04, 2018 @09:32PM (#16999778)
> The reason engineers make so much money in the US is the public market giants like Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google, etc

The reason engineers in the US make so much, is because four to five decades ago US tech companies combined with globalization and scaled out into the entire planet as a market. That premise has remained intact, while the global economy has gotten a lot larger and richer. That's something most other nations have failed to do at a large scale (S.Korea has Samsung but not many other companies that have gone hyper global for example).

Go all the way back to Fairchild, Intel, HP, IBM in the 1950-1980 era. Nobody has done globalized tech like the US, probably only Japan got close (and they've largely missed out on the huge margins in software).

Without the ability to tap into the rest of the planet, Netflix wouldn't be able to pay what it does. The rest of the planet is half their market now, and will be 2/3 or 3/4 of it in the near future.

Europe only has three or four major tech companies that managed to go substantially global (eg SAP, ARM, Spotify, or Booking.com which got swallowed by Priceline). ARM & Booking got taken out, Spotify will be acquired next. The same kind of problem Canada often faces with its tech companies (Shopify is very likely to end up in the belly of a US tech or retail company, especially once their valuation normalizes).

Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by minwcnt5 on Friday May 04, 2018 @06:12PM (#16998819)
I have a hard time understanding the comparison of aggregate market cap (a valuation) to GDP (an annual output). These seem like two very different quantities, with different units. How do you intend for us to interpret that comparison? Wouldn't it make more sense to compare the aggregate revenues of those companies? (I'm not an economist, so I'm not sure those two quantities are comparable either, but they seem closer at least.)
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by ummonk on Friday May 04, 2018 @08:08PM (#16999427)
It's several hundred billion in revenue per year - i.e. about half the Canadian GDP for the FAANG companies.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by vonmoltke on Friday May 04, 2018 @05:05PM (#16998340)
FAANG can only hire so many engineers, the positions tend to be highly competitive, they pull them from all over the world, and the drop-off in compensation at the next level is pretty significant.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by xeromal on Friday May 04, 2018 @05:20PM (#16998456)
But they push other tech firms to make their offerings more palatable.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by netheril96 on Friday May 04, 2018 @07:14PM (#16999183)
Can Canadian programmers good enough to be hired by FAANG be paid similar salaries in Canada?
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by jonny_eh on Friday May 04, 2018 @07:45PM (#16999335)
No, that's the whole point of this discussion.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by netheril96 on Friday May 04, 2018 @10:11PM (#16999934)
It's a rhetorical question.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by querulous on Friday May 04, 2018 @10:13PM (#16999944)
they can work for FAANG in canada at a 30-40% discount (well not FN, but AAG)
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by TulliusCicero on Friday May 04, 2018 @05:52PM (#16998691)
They have an anchoring effect.
Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by s2g on Friday May 04, 2018 @04:40PM (#16998117)
Lots less, but the big problem is a lack of competition. We don't have the big companies sucking up devs at an insane rate, or startups doing the same.

So they just pay what it takes to fill the spot.

Of course they are also incredibly resistant to changing this, preferring to complain about how we need to fix brain drain and/or make immigration easier.

Re:Canada facing ‘brain drain’ as tech talent leaves for Sil... by pm90 on Friday May 04, 2018 @04:48PM (#16998184)
> Lots less, but the big problem is a lack of competition. We don't have the big companies sucking up devs at an insane rate, or startups doing the same.

So it seems like they're not losing devs at a fast enough pace to warrant increasing dev salaries? Or perhaps there are just enough developers for the Canadian market, to not have to increase compensation to attract better talent?

From what I've seen, American based companies with offices in Canada do seem to pay very well, but Canadian companies are unabashedly poorly compensating. I talked with a few hiring managers at some Canadian startups and what they were offering would be less than what I made right out of college. It left me wondering how talented folks can continue to work for Canadian firms?