News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by wafflebear on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:10PM (#16996214)
Singapore has the best system, you are given a plastic token with a number corresponding to the number on your tray. When you come out the other side of security and want to collect your tray, you have to present the plastic token otherwise they won't give you your tray back.

That other airports don't implement this system continues to astonish me.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by sitepodmatt on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:14PM (#16996261)
It surprises me that other major airports choose to independently innovate without just copying Changi (Singapore's airport). Everything from free cinemas, to carpeted walkways, to water taps, to efficent immigration and security and more.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by ASalazarMX on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:30PM (#16997024)
> efficent immigration

A couple of years ago I had to take a connected flight where one of the stops was in USA. I was never going to leave the airport, yet I had to form in a line while immigration was doing the routine bottleneck check on dozens of travelers, while my flight time was getting dangerously close. We just had to suck it up, any complaining just brought additional delays. The check was fairly automated, I guess they just needed more agents, or less gratuitous revisions.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by chimeracoder on Friday May 04, 2018 @03:15PM (#16997378)
> A couple of years ago I had to take a connected flight where one of the stops was in USA. I was never going to leave the airport, yet I had to form in a line while immigration was doing the routine bottleneck check on dozens of travelers, while my flight time was getting dangerously close. We just had to suck it up, any complaining just brought additional delays. The check was fairly automated, I guess they just needed more agents, or less gratuitous revisions.

I had this exact same experience with LHR (London Heathrow). I was never even trying to leave the airport, just make a connecting flight.

Not only did they decide that having a single security lane open was sufficient, but they also (effectively) only let one person unload their bag into the trays at a time, for a max bus throughput of 1 person at a time. If you left anything in it - and I mean anything[0] - they pulled your bag and tray to the side, and you had to wait for one of two agents to inspect it. The wait time for that was about 10-15 minutes. At no point did anybody have any sense of urgency whatsoever with their work, despite all of us being there to make connecting flights. They shuffled back and forth between the body scanner, X-ray machine, and the break area, chatting with each other. I was seventh in line, and in all, the entire process took literally 30 minutes (I timed it).

I was floored, because I've traveled around the world and never seen anything this bad. Even Heathrow security has never been that bad for me when taking off from London. There was an agent from our departing flight there to escort us, because we were holding the whole flight up. I asked her if this was typical or not, and she just rolled her eyes and laughed, "yeah, this is how it usually is".

[0] One guy next to me had his back selected because he had left his eyeglasses inside his bag, in a plastic (not metal) case.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by dominotw on Saturday May 05, 2018 @01:41PM (#17002792)
I had to do this in Abu Dhabi. The whole story is organized in an amerturish fashion. They were parading us around through various queques in the airport in groups of ppl landing on same plane. The whole thing was really bizzare and humiliating.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by Max_aaa on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:56PM (#16996680)
And the variety of available food choices. Or the fact that the is a nice gym with a shower.

It is one of the best airports I have ever seen.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by speeq on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:36PM (#16996468)
I didn't like the carpeted walkways there to be honest since it just made it more difficult to pull my hand luggage.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by lostlogin on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:49PM (#16996598)
Heavy stuff and soft surfaces don’t mix. A hospital nearby has carpets in places. The staff pushing the half ton x-ray machine leave furrows like they are plowing a paddock.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by sitepodmatt on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:19PM (#16996894)
Maybe part of the plan, it's difficult to enforce hand luggage limitations at airports without adding extra checks, but if you exceed 10kg that overweight suitcase is going to make some drag on carpet. Small nudges, similarly how BA cabin crew are instructed to never help anyone put their luggage in the overhead bin unless they have a suitable reason.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by r00fus on Friday May 04, 2018 @07:50PM (#16999351)
> BA cabin crew are instructed to never help anyone put their luggage in the overhead bin unless they have a suitable reason.

Is this for real? Sucks, but I can imagine most fellow passengers pick up the slack... at least I've always helped others (and vice-versa) in the US.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by sitepodmatt on Friday May 04, 2018 @08:19PM (#16999483)
It is, Ive witnessed cabin crew refuse or ignore multiple times, and clearly says so on their website too that passengers must be able to put luggage in the bins themselves. Makes sense to me, if you can't lift it then it's probably overweight and should of been checked in. Obviously I'm sure they'd make exceptions for unaccompanied children, height challenged people, injured, the very elderly, those with noted back issues, 1st class passengers maybe. Seems a reasonable policy, faster boarding, reduction in abuse, space for others, etc.. https://www.britishairways.com/en-us/information/baggage-ess... It all about small nudges, disincentives to affect future behavior, back to the Singapore airside carpets. Others do pick up the slack indeed, and usually both ended up with a quick moan, whilst I really wanna comment you selfish .#*@ that suitcase is taking up half the bin, where do I put my bag, or good forbid you try put that 20kg on top of my small rugsack
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by wafflebear on Saturday May 05, 2018 @12:45PM (#17002546)
It's for the safety of the cabin crew. If they had to help put people's heavy bags in the overheads on every flight, they would quickly get back injuries. It's fine for the passengers because they are not doing it often.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by speeq on Friday May 04, 2018 @09:57PM (#16999882)
I mostly fly budget airlines so my hand luggage has to be lightweight, but the carpet at Changi is a minor inconvenience (especially when one is tired after a +13h flight) because my luggage practically rolls itself when you give it a nudge on an even surface!
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by dragonwriter on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:20PM (#16996912)
> That other airports don't implement this system continues to astonish me.

For the US airports where TSA directly provides airport security, this is probably mission-related. The TSA checkpoint’s mission is to make sure unauthorized people and objects don't get into the sterile section of the airport. Additional protocols to prevent theft are off mission, so resources aren't going to be devoted to identifying, establishing, and operating them.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by EGreg on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:25PM (#16996343)
What astonishes me also is the baggage claim.

I can literally take a few people’s suitcases circling around before they spot them, and leave!

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by blawson on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:26PM (#16996358)
Even more amazing in airports like SFO where baggage claim is after security, such that anyone can wander in off the curb and pick up a bag. I think this is uniquely American though.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by conanbatt on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:30PM (#16996396)
Have to remember though, that its just as easy to steal anything nobody is watching. It is not the incapacity to steal the only thing that stops stealing.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by jacquesm on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:35PM (#16996449)
True, but when you're boarding the plane on the other end there is no sign that says 'remember, your bags will be left unattended in a public space upon arrival'.

Schiphol does it about equally dumb where the baggage carousel is past the last security check and 10 meters from the public spaces. It would be trivial to take one or more bags that aren't yours and walk out.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by EGreg on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:58PM (#16996696)
I have some ideas and a provisional patent on two things:

1) “Meet your baggage” a simple system that can be bolted on to most existing processes that lets you know which airport your luggage is at, where it is in the process, and when your luggage is coming out and on what carousel. So you can be standing by the chute expecting it.

2) A system for seats to recline starting from the back, letting people switch seats and pay $ and go to sleep in a comfortable reclining position, which I find is really crucial for a long flight and people are willing to pay for.

If you’re interested and have some connections with the airline industry email me at greg+airline the at symbol qbix.com

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by jacquesm on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:06PM (#16996758)
> So you can be standing by the chute expecting it.

This doesn't always work. Many times the luggage is at the carousel quicker than you are.

As for '2', airlines don't like people switching seats, before take-off they use the 'weight and balance' argument, and after take-off because it will slow things down tremendously when de-planing to sort out where everybody's carry on luggage is.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by EGreg on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:59PM (#16997271)
Obviously the patent already thought about these things. I will just briefly address them.

1) Luggage doesn’t come out until your phone indicates that you’re ready or went through a checkpoint. This way you can coordinate the variable time you have (eg detained or in a long line) with the baggage before it is placed on the chute. The throwers simply sort the luggage by having cleared to go down the chute, as you move through the process. They can also see on a screen for each luggage where each person is in the process. Usually it’s far easier to delay luggage than expedite it.

2) People are woken up before descent begins and the seatbelt sign is turned on. For the vast majority of flights, this can be predicted in advance. Switching happens in an orderly fashion, and people end up near their baggage before the flight ends. They actually can even pay per minute for naps in the back, requesting a sleeper seat is like requesting a flight attendant, except it lights up the request for the next seats in the back, and whoever accepts your offer can even get a cut of the $. Typically though the airlines would sell the back seats for cheaper (because you have to move) and charge far more for the people who want to sleep on the flight. Often a good relaxed sleep is worth far more and is an impulse buy on the plane.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by jacquesm on Friday May 04, 2018 @03:27PM (#16997485)
There is no 'hold' stage for luggage other than for stuff that is suspect, it is a pretty straight line from the plane to the belt in most airports. So you'd have to redesign the airport to account for the person that wants to go and eat a steak in the taxfree zone until they exit the airport.

Anyway, good luck with your patents, I hope it works out for you.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by EGreg on Friday May 04, 2018 @04:06PM (#16997834)
There are also no reclining chairs in the back of planes. These things would be incremental additions, obviously SOME changes need to be made.

Thanks!!

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by Swizec on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:09PM (#16996792)
> which I find is really crucial for a long flight and people are willing to pay for.

Which is why airlines sell properly reclinable seats for $8,000 a pop on long flights. It's called Business Class.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by EGreg on Sunday May 06, 2018 @12:45AM (#17005243)
Proof that people will pay ahead of time.

And many will pay while on the plane!

While others can pay less by agreeing to give up their seat to someone who wants to sleep.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by Swizec on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:08PM (#16996778)
Do you think this is why guidelines say never to put valuables in your checked luggage? I always thought it was because fragile and valuable have a high overlap, but this public unattended space idea might make even more sense.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by dragonwriter on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:25PM (#16996975)
> Do you think this is why guidelines say never to put valuables in your checked luggage?

It's part of the reason.

Other parts include:

(1) Even with “positive bag matching” in place which should in theory prevent this, bags end up going elsewhere or elsewhen.

(2) Theft by airport and security services employees between check-in and delivery to the carousel.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by pascalxus on Friday May 04, 2018 @03:34PM (#16997522)
but with all the security cameras in place, i imagine the risk to the thief would be too high and not worth it.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by csomar on Friday May 04, 2018 @07:09PM (#16999171)
Given that someone got his macbook stolen and nobody nudged, I would not rely a lot on security cameras.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by jacquesm on Friday May 04, 2018 @03:47PM (#16997639)
Claim you thought it was your suitcase. This probably happens by accident at least a few times per month at a busy airport, there are only so many variations on the theme of 'suitcase' and not everybody has the foresight to make theirs recognizable without opening them.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by nervousvarun on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:29PM (#16996389)
It's done this way in Canada as well.

Source :): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_Park_Boys

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by shaftway on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:51PM (#16996619)
I've traveled with rifles in checked luggage occasionally. The case is required to be locked, but the locks on these cases will only stop a casual check. 30 seconds with a hammer and screwdriver are enough to get most of them open. Usually you have to pick these up from a specific point and show your ticket stub to claim them.

At SFO they claimed they never received my rifle case. 15 minutes later I found it circling on a luggage carousel.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by LyndsySimon on Friday May 04, 2018 @05:00PM (#16998296)
I often travel with firearms, and even when I don't "need" to I will sometimes put an AR-15 lower receiver in a large Pelican case so I can securely lock it. A stripped lower can be had for $30 if you shop around, and I've met others why travel with sensitive electronics that have done the same thing.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by bb611 on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:39PM (#16996496)
This is typical of pretty much all US airports. It's very rare to have baggage claim inside security.

The deterrent is that there are a large number of security cameras covering that space, and that continues out to parking structures, so it's a very high risk crime and not reasonably repeatable.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by vbezhenar on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:46PM (#16996571)
I traveled and was in Kazakhstan, Russia, Ukraine and Spain airports few years ago, it's exactly the same: ribbon with bags, you have to spot your own. I even picked up wrong bag, then realized that it wasn't mine and put it back.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by ggg9990 on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:44PM (#16996541)
I don’t know about you but when I travel there is never anything valuable in my checked luggage (except for the luggage itself I guess).
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by pwinnski on Friday May 04, 2018 @06:06PM (#16998785)
I once flew from Chicago to Dushanbe via Istanbul. My bag was checked and a sticker for it was attached to my boarding pass. While traversing through Turkey, they required both my incoming and outbound boarding passes, and kept that one. So in Dushanbe, they wouldn't give me my bag, since I no longer had the sticker.

I had to wait until every single person was off the plane and had exited with their bags, and there was only one bag left, and me. Then they believed the bag was mine and let me take it.

All of this made me slightly anxious, since I don't speak Tajik, but it worked out, I guess.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by testplzignore on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:50PM (#16996607)
I had a situation recently where someone accidentally took my bag thinking that it was theirs, and they eventually came back to baggage claim about 15 minutes later after they realized it.

If you think about it, there's a pretty serious security issue there. Someone could walk into an airport with a bomb in a bag, toss it on the baggage carousel while nobody is paying attention, and then walk out. It wouldn't get noticed by security looking for unattended baggage because it's expected for there to be unattended baggage there.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by bfred_it on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:50PM (#16996617)
I’m Changi Terminal 2 and I’m not seeing any tokens being exchanged. Are you sure that this was not airline-specific?

Side note for the unaware: Singapore’s airport has screening at each and every gate instead of a joint one right after passport control.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by wafflebear on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:36PM (#16997082)
This was at Changi Terminal 3.

The screening at the gate is annoying IMO, because you can't buy a drink to take on the plane. It's my only complaint about Changi.

Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by csomar on Friday May 04, 2018 @07:08PM (#16999161)
You can take drinks on the plane? I don't think it is a good idea.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by wafflebear on Friday May 04, 2018 @08:08PM (#16999430)
Non-alcoholic drinks, sure. I usually buy a bottle of water at least, flight attendants are not always able to serve drinks, it helps to bring something with you.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by bfred_it on Saturday May 05, 2018 @04:49AM (#17000959)
OP here. My bad. Apparently they only give the token when you leave your phone or computer, but not always.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by bahularora on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:35PM (#16996453)
India has the same system.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by weekay on Friday May 04, 2018 @01:57PM (#16996693)
Not just Singapore , a lot of other airports do this as well ,as other comments have pointed out. This isn't the norm in the UK unfortunately. The reason boils down to staffing on the other end to check the token and to handover the tray. Token and staffing would mean added cost and liability - not something an outsourced security vendor or another government department agency would be willing to foot the bill for.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by mdekkers on Saturday May 05, 2018 @04:17AM (#17000907)
To be fair, this is trivial to automate - barcode on the token, scan on the other side, conveyor belt pops out your trays.
Re:'My £1,000 Macbook Air was stolen at airport security and... by seanmcdirmid on Friday May 04, 2018 @02:02PM (#16996726)
I don’t remember them having that for airside transfers (from a few years ago anyways). Is that new?