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Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by kazinator on Thursday May 03, 2018 @09:51AM (#16985996)
> Who/what created the multiverse?

The multiverse hypothesis (in the style of Tegmark, et al) is partially motivated to render this sort question invalid. You're asking, effectively, "what are the hidden variables behind the multiverse", whereas the idea specifically asserts that there aren't any.

The idea is that what underlies each possible universe is just math, "all the way down".

So the question you're asking is exactly like, who created the sinusoid curve, pi, or prime numbers.

Proving the idea may be impossible. That doesn't make it wrong. If some aspect of reality is not provable, then that can't be helped.

The fascinating thing is that the hypothesis cannot be disproven either. The hypothesis that there is only one universe also isn't provable; the fact that other universes haven't been discovered/accessed doesn't prove it, since lack of evidence of existence isn't a proof of nonexistence.

The hypothesis that there are multiple universes is simpler than the hypothesis that there is just the one. It's more believable, and explains more. For instance, all remarkable coincidences in the structure of our universe are explained via the anthropic principle, which is greatly boosted by the multiple universe hypothesis.

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by darkmighty on Thursday May 03, 2018 @10:51AM (#16986532)
I also find Tegmark's (and to an extent Schmidhuber's) multiverse theories attractive, I'm quite leaning towards believing they must be true.

But, if I'm not mistaken, the multiverse hypothesized by Hawkin, and the usual multiverse from String theory is not this mathematical multiverse. In String theory multiverses, not every possible universe is allowed to exist, only universes satisfying string theory conditions. That's not to say those hypothesis are inconsistent -- the String thoery multiverse may exist within the "Mathematical multiverse". Once we accept that falsifiability isn't the only motivation to create theories (say by subscribing to MUH), then we need to accept that maybe our universe is also part of a larger non-observable universe, if and only if this provides a particularly "simple" explanation to our existence.

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by TheOtherHobbes on Thursday May 03, 2018 @10:22AM (#16986269)
What created math?

I don't see how the essentially magical appearance of an incredibly complex set of axioms from nothing at all is a plausible answer to the 'Why something instead of nothing?" question.

To be clear, I have absolutely no idea how to answer that question. I'm certainly not a closet theist. My best guess is that a useful answer is currently some way beyond our pay grade as a species.

So I don't find "Because math" to be any more convincing as an answer than suggesting god did it.

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by kazinator on Thursday May 03, 2018 @10:30AM (#16986346)
It's not so "magical" if all conceivable sets of axioms are understood to exist.

> any more convincing as an answer than suggesting god did it.

Doesn't have the problem of 1) asserting that no other gods exist other than this specific god or group of gods and 2) the issue of who created god.

We don't ask, who put pi about 14% of the way between 3 and 4; that's almost silly.

:)

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by whytaka on Thursday May 03, 2018 @12:13PM (#16987236)
It's an oft-repeated argument but I lean heavily towards Math, as notation and application, as something discovered not invented, while Math as that which is seemingly present in everything that ever happens, as the fundamental basis of our reality.

It would make sense to me that reality, encapsulating all that exists, "is" because "it must be", like Math.

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by discreteevent on Thursday May 03, 2018 @01:05PM (#16987703)
I'm from the opposite side of the house: Reality is primary. Math is one of the tools we use to work with it.
Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by kazinator on Thursday May 03, 2018 @07:08PM (#16990833)
All of the rigorous descriptions of reality consist of math; the deeper we delve into it, the more math there is. So far, no non-math stuff been found. There is nothing to contradict a suspicion that it's just math all the way to the bottom (if there is a bottom) or else just math all the way.
Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by mitchty on Thursday May 03, 2018 @10:43AM (#16986457)
> What created math?

You presume it was created. It might be as valid a question as "who created erosion", aka math is a natural extension of our universe.

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by krapp on Thursday May 03, 2018 @10:48AM (#16986510)
>aka math is a natural extension of our universe

Or, more likely IMO, our universe is a natural extension of math.

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by deciplex on Thursday May 03, 2018 @01:38PM (#16987993)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothes...

I get it, but I can't quite wrap my head around a mathematical universe with no substrate. As though any internally consistent ontology with self-aware structures (and, it seems to me, also those without) just "exists" apropos of nothing. What's doing the math?

Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by kazinator on Thursday May 03, 2018 @02:20PM (#16988370)
Once you postulate a substrate, you then have to wrap your head around what is its substrate, and what is that substrate's substrate and so on. When you look at it that way, the no-substrate version looks better.
Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by tim333 on Friday May 04, 2018 @08:18AM (#16993943)
Who invented all the digits of pi? They just are what they are without needing a substrate. It seems real because you are part of it like being in VR.
Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by deciplex on Monday May 07, 2018 @07:14PM (#17017268)
I said "what" is doing the math, not "who".
Re:Stephen Hawking's Final Paper Cuts the Multiverse Down to... by tim333 on Friday May 04, 2018 @08:11AM (#16993911)
No one created the math. Things like pi = 3.141... just are that way because they have to be that.