(1) That process isn't always what you think it is. Sure, some companies will copy the superficial aspects of that process, asking puzzle questions or looking down their nose at you because you don't know some trivia about a language that has existed less time than you've been programming. They're idiots. However, there are also more people than you might think who have actually been trained in such interview techniques, who almost couldn't care less about your solution because they're looking at how you solved it, how you communicated about solving it, how you reacted when surprised or confronted, and so on. That's really important stuff, and I for one don't mind being measured on it.

(2) If you're clear about expectations, you might be surprised what kind of deal you can get. For example, this company is notoriously averse to letting people work from home full time. I'm one of only a few dozen (out of thousands) apparently. Why? Because I told them right at the start that it was an immutable requirement and if they weren't willing to make that deal then we might as well not waste our time. Mentioning that kind of thing post-offer wouldn't have worked. Not a chance.

So yes, I think people like you and me can get through that kind of recruiting process and get the kinds of jobs we want. I hope that helps.

I think that's the problem. Young, fresh, idealistic programmers straight out of college are willing to give their whole body, life, and soul to a job; if a recruiter was charismatic enough (and if it wasn't for student loans), he or she could practically convince them to pay the company for the privilege of giving them programming to do. They don't know any better.

You, on the other hand, are old and tired enough - and more importantly, have enough other priorities in your life - that you simply can't be convinced to work 12 hours a day or make your free-time hobby also be coding for your employer.

That's the point, and that's why I'm actively working to make money in other ways and not be a programmer because I'm not employable. Well perhaps employable now, but at 60?

For them, the top priority is to get actual work experience to go on a resume. That first job is partly a continuation of their education. I know a person who failed at this. He graduated, didn't find a job immediately, and thus ended up with a period of unemployment that probably made employers even less interested.

Those 12 hours are probably spent implementing unneeded buggy implementations of standard library functions. :-) There can be a struggle to keep up with the more experienced people and even a struggle to adapt to a professional workplace environment.

I sure know what you mean about other priorities though. My open source project (procps) got taken over by other people due to my lack of free time. I have 11 kids. I did OK up to 3 kids, and even with 5 when unemployed, but now there is no way I could properly maintain an open source project.

+ A company that gives me a good work/life balance + Regular WFH or preferably be fully remote + Interesting tasks, in a relatively stable environment

Most of my peers seem to want the same thing as well. While I've done the crazy workweek startup thing before, it burns you out and it's simply not sustainable. I don't have a single peer who still works in startup land.

The work is interesting, though never novel.

Everybody I know tells me programmers should change jobs every 2 years, but I feel like maybe I struck gold the first time?

I advocate every 6-12 months, even (or especially if) you're happy where you are. There's virtually no downside to doing this except for an unpleasant vacation day. Worst case is you still have your job you like. Best case is you get an offer that gets you a raise (either where you are or with a better company).

(Doing this I've gotten about a 10% raise every year for the past ~8 years - sometimes changing jobs but usually just presenting an offer to current employer - and I'm not a rockstar interviewer or anything.)

Enjoy your good fortune and be grateful. A lot of people hate their jobs. Even programmers.

Just make sure you're always able to get a new job if necessary. Basic stuff like keep learning something useful, don't tie yourself too much financially, etc.

It's not about corporates or start-ups it is as you say about sustainability.

It's rough that their is a perception that cutting edge work has to happen either in corporate or start-up or the games industry.

I suppose to some extent that is actually true, but there is a middle ground.

You can define that for yourself and it sounds like you are doing.

You already have it figured out :-)

Apparently because I would be "helping people" I should be willing to take a pay cut. The people I would be helping were paying for the service, but it seems that helping these paying customers wasn't enough motivation to set up some sort of reasonable profit share or equity scheme from the other side of this particular bargain.

I don't actually know if employers ever mean anything else by "passion".

Coming up on 50 in a few short months.

Been there done it all, from humble beginnings to the upper echelons of big five corporates.

Had the whole house in the burbs with the three car garage and five cars, the dance music studio in the basement.

Stock options and pay up the wazoo.

The money wasn't the problem, the environment was.

The cash just wasn't enough

More importantly my mental health was suffering.

Specifically I wanted to continue being a professional developer with a private space, a shared space and above all work with extremely talented people on serious projects.

My colleagues and myself didn't need break out rooms and enumerable meetings to get stuff done, because creation just happened.

So my wife and I gave it all up and started doing start-ups. She's from a similar background and couldn't stand the facade of modern corporate culture either.

Emotionally draining and ultimately unproductive. You get tired seeing a team of a hundred doing work that can be done with a team of ten or less.

Checked out of corporate and went for a walk in the metaphorical desert.

Came back from it rediscovered the joy of programming, dispersed all my assets and started again.

Now we do things on our own terms and with a low impact that we believe in.

Somehow great people, young and old appear out of nowhere and want to help. That's awesome, and we learn from each other.

Hopefully soon our current project will be released and maybe even useful.

The main thing is you don't need a lot honestly in this business. Patience and just wanting to do the right things goes an awful long way.

I say screw corporate culture, at least SV culture. It's nothing a mirage designed for churn and burn and cares less for actual humans

I mean just look how FAANGM create actual cities around their campus to suck you in.

I'm sorry but that isn't normal. It may be convenient, it may be fun when you are young, but it isnt natural and it creates echo chambers and bubbles that are not sustainable.

My hat is off to anyone who does this job, young or old, it's tough.

But please do it for the right reasons, know that you have to be in it for the long game and the game gets bigger every single day.

Good luck people.

And by the way..

It's worth it

I'm 38 year old programmer with 16 years of career (26 with all the hobby stuff before that) and my soul cries for a break. I am working my ass off to start my first ever mortgage (don't ask, I was stupid with money most of my life) and even though investing in future stability and security sounds good, my entire being screams for a much more fulfilling job, ideally related to aspirations I had ever since I was a teenager.

What are you guys doing, if you don't mind me asking? I'm on the hunt for people like you. I need your kind in my life, very badly.

Hope this isn't creepy. Just an honest guy who's about to get fed up.

Facebook. Apple. Amazon. Netflix. Google. M ???

What's the M?

I think I could get you a job "in a grey box on a plain chair and table", though mostly my employer does drywall. There are several chair and desk/table choices.

You get money and various extras like health coverage, 401K, etc. Your preference to "do a great and professional job" "in a chair and table at an office" is fine. There are a few silly trinkets, easy to ignore.

You can "leave early for example to pick up the kids" or for no reason at all. You just need maintain a long-term average of 40 hours per week, and even that can be negotiated if you are really good or have a temporary situation. Some people keep early hours, some people keep late hours, and some people work hours that are pretty random. I take decently full advantage of this, typically showing up in the afternoon. It really makes a quality-of-life difference to be able to go do stuff in the middle of the day without begging for permission.

Believing in the mission of the company is a funny thing in my case. It's almost the same as patriotism. If you would have positive feelings about a huge American flag in the cafeteria, maybe it is the right environment for you. If that makes you uncomfortable, you'd best NOPE NOPE NOPE out of this one.

I'll try to remember to put a proper job description in the next "Who is Hiring?" thread, but FYI: It's the sort of job for people who like writing boot loaders, kernels, emulators, decompilers, hypervisors, JIT engines, and similar stuff. You can email me at users.sf.net, with account name albert.

I take it this means be a programmer with significant experience? It would be great too get a fulfilling job that pays the equivalent of a FAANG salary for junior devs, but I don't see anything like that available to me. I guess that'll be one of the good things of becoming an older programmer...

EDIT: I do not necessarily mean "questionable" here in a moral sense, more so you disagree with it or find it questionable yourself, however your interests may lie.

I just don't believe in the mission.

I wouldn't work in certain industries like gambling or tobacco but apart from that I really need the work to be interesting (this is critical), but I just don't feel inspired by the founders goal/mission of "changing the world through being the X of Y".