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Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by colordrops on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:24PM (#16877209)
What would you prefer? Some sort of rating or ranking system based off of objective standards?
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by BjoernKW on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:39PM (#16877365)
An informal network of trust (which in fact already exists, it's just that many companies and many engineers don't use it), i.e. personal references, referrals, open source contributions, a project portfolio.

Many participants in the game unfortunately insist on hiring and marketing by three-letter acronyms.

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by Franciscouzo on Thursday April 19, 2018 @02:44PM (#16878813)
And then people that aren't part of that network of trust (like minorities or women) can't get work.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by lowbloodsugar on Thursday April 19, 2018 @02:54PM (#16878901)
And likewise, we get cliques of bullshit artists. Literally this guy just proposed "It's not what you know, its who you know" as the solution.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by BjoernKW on Thursday April 19, 2018 @05:10PM (#16880210)
No, he didn’t. I said ‘network of trust’, not ‘cronyism’.

- People starring your GitHub repository.

- Someone following you on Twitter.

- Someone linking to a blog post you wrote.

- Someone recommending you to someone else because you did a great job on a project.

These are all examples of informal networks of trust.

I fail to see how that’s a bad thing.

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by Retra on Thursday April 19, 2018 @11:26PM (#16881953)
Fuck that would be awful.

I have 0 stars on Github. Don't use twitter. Don't have a blog. Only a few coworkers I even talk to.

I spend my time writing code and interacting with my family, not trying to win popularity contests. Now if you're looking to hire celebrities instead of programmers, you're maybe onto something. I'm not a self-promotion artist. If I were, I would work in advertising.

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by kraigie on Friday April 20, 2018 @11:37AM (#16885647)
Twitter and blogs would be an excellent approach for hiring marketers/growth hackers
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by BjoernKW on Friday April 20, 2018 @02:59AM (#16882695)
Being trusted by your peers is different from trying to win shallow popularity contests.

That kind of aversion towards self-promotion might be a reason why we arrived at absurd phenomena like homework assignments for interviewing processes in the first place.

With no way to draw upon previous work results or third party trust how else is someone supposed to assess a candidate’s skills?

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by Retra on Friday April 20, 2018 @06:49PM (#16888947)
If people did previous work, you should look at it. There's a way to do that. Now, if you can't because of the industry's propensity for using the law to hide information, then it seems that may be the cause of the industry's inability to find relevant information about potential employees.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by salvar on Friday April 20, 2018 @08:41AM (#16884260)
Number of Twitter followers is now an indication of third party trust?
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by BjoernKW on Friday April 20, 2018 @10:13AM (#16884904)
For the software industry ( for other industries or use cases that might certainly be different) I think it is. It’s just one possible indicator but an indicator it is.

If I come across or meet a new person from this industry and that person has a Twitter account I routinely check the follower count.

A somewhat large number says to me: “Many people seem to think that person has something relevant to say.”

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by sincerely on Friday April 20, 2018 @10:50AM (#16885212)
More realistically, a somewhat large number (>1000) says to me "this person spends time and energy on self-promotion". Some of the smartest people I know have Twitter accounts with just 100-300 followers because they don't aggressively blog or anything.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by typon on Thursday April 19, 2018 @11:01PM (#16881873)
Bingo. You end up becoming like all the other industries dominated by white men at positions of power (Law e.g.)
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by BjoernKW on Friday April 20, 2018 @02:42AM (#16882635)
Even if that were the case, which I don’t think it is because the underlying problem is something else, the current predominant interviewing process does little to alleviate that problem as well.

I don’t think we can magically solve inequality by trying to fix the interviewing process or by denying there are social networks.

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by kraigie on Friday April 20, 2018 @11:35AM (#16885629)
Actually there are historical examples of where changing the interviewing process solved inequality. All it took was a curtain. You see there where few women in orchestras and it was said that this was because they didn't have the talent so couldn't get expirence, rather than being unable to get expirence due to prejudice. Then blind auditions started, interviewers would sit in front of a curtain, candidate would come in behind and play their music. Suddenly when the interviews could only judge on performance the same women that they said didn't have the talent where the ones they were choosing and that inequality was fixed. Now there might not work if the underlying cause is something else but it has worked.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by chrisbennet on Sunday April 22, 2018 @06:47AM (#16895595)
It is great that it worked for musicians but I was surprised that it doesn’t necessarily work for resumes.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-tria...

”Professor Michael Hiscox, a Harvard academic who oversaw the trial, said he was shocked by the results and has urged caution.

"We anticipated this would have a positive impact on diversity — making it more likely that female candidates and those from ethnic minorities are selected for the shortlist," he said.

"We found the opposite, that de-identifying candidates reduced the likelihood of women being selected for the shortlist." The trial found assigning a male name to a candidate made them 3.2 per cent less likely to get a job interview.

Adding a woman's name to a CV made the candidate 2.9 per cent more likely to get a foot in the door.

"We should hit pause and be very cautious about introducing this as a way of improving diversity, as it can have the opposite effect," Professor Hiscox said.”

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by BjoernKW on Thursday April 19, 2018 @05:04PM (#16880156)
That’s whataboutism.

Is there racial or gender-based inequality? Yes, unfortunately there is.

Should we therefore resign and stop trusting each other altogether? No, we shouldn’t.

We should rather try and extend our trust to others.

Inequality isn’t caused by trust but by a lack of it.

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by slimshady94 on Friday April 20, 2018 @12:01AM (#16882068)
That's not whataboutism, that's valid criticism of a flaw in your idea.

>Should we therefore resign and stop trusting each other altogether?

This is a strawman, that was not suggested. What was suggested was to have an interview process which doesn't involve informal/subjective trust. The best programmers don't have huge twitter networks or github stars - some might, but not all. That's no criteria for filtering.

Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by speby on Thursday April 19, 2018 @01:27PM (#16877883)
Well, perhaps. I don't want to suggest "licensing" because that's kind of a naughty word around here but man, it sure would be nice if something like that could take the extreme repetition and time wasting of "technical screens" out of the interview process completely.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by pathseeker on Thursday April 19, 2018 @03:54PM (#16879519)
The problem is that the license test can be gamed just like the technical interviews they are designed to replace.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by mylons on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:29PM (#16877259)
licensing might not be a bad route, similar to a carpenter's license or a bar exam
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by speby on Thursday April 19, 2018 @01:28PM (#16877907)
Licensing probably could work in this industry but it would be a tough nut to implement. For starters, as others have mentioned, with so much change happening, re-licensing would probably be needed, and of course that's a huge cost, a pain, and overhead as well. But then again, as I think about potential solutions, I am kind of coming up dry. Really need to mull on this some more.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by nrhk on Thursday April 19, 2018 @04:07PM (#16879629)
It can just be a general aptitude test done in several popular languages of your choice with some level of customization based on what sort of programmer you want to be.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by s73v3r_ on Thursday April 19, 2018 @04:54PM (#16880070)
For all the change that happens, though, the fundamentals are still the same.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by sigstoat on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:38PM (#16877356)
plenty of garbage lawyers passing bar exams, and law firms don't just check that you've passed the bar and hire you.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by cakebrewery on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:33PM (#16877308)
So, like certifications? Last I heard those are frowned upon in our industry.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by eeZah7Ux on Thursday April 19, 2018 @06:10PM (#16880609)
Only because they are too easy, or for profit, or focused on using a given product or unimportant concepts.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by praptak on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:36PM (#16877338)
We won't get an agreement about the scope of the certification or even what answers are right. Too much change, too much opinions, too little rigor/science.
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by mAEStro-paNDa on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:41PM (#16877386)
the article itself mentions a solution which isn't terrible, it's just the issue is a matter of trust
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by mywacaday on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:31PM (#16877272)
I'm sure there's a blockchain solution out there somewhere (half-joking)
Re:The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid home... by reaperducer on Thursday April 19, 2018 @12:52PM (#16877509)
>I'm sure there's a blockchain solution out there somewhere

Don't be silly. GPDR is going to save the world, solve all of the internet's problems and bake you nice warm croissants in the morning.