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Re:OpenAI Charter by dsacco on Monday April 09, 2018 @02:34PM (#16795650)
> No one in their right mind would ever publish significant details about AGI technology.

Are you sure? I'd publish technical research details about strong AI. I'd probably even open source one with the papers. I think I'm in my right mind; I guess that depends on definition, doesn't it?

Re:OpenAI Charter by gone35 on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:28PM (#16796153)
Wow; I would strongly recommend you to re-think your position! Think of it in terms of, e.g., gain-of-function research in virology (cf. [1]).

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/

Re:OpenAI Charter by s1dechnl on Monday April 09, 2018 @05:00PM (#16796955)
Indeed, no one with a mind capable of grasping the foundations of AGI would take such an intellectually incompatible step of publishing the full details of how to construct it. Such an unaware mind would simply fall short long before gaining a glimpse of the underpinnings.

In the first moments of realization, one would more likely be scared into silence for some time. Upon gaining their bearings , they'd probably be drawn into even more silence and careful minded reflections on the implications and assessment on how to more publicly move forward. Thanks for the parallel framing in yet another powerful research field gone35.

Re:OpenAI Charter by dsacco on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:31PM (#16796178)
I'm sorry, I'm not following. Are you saying publishing novel research about strong AI is analogous to releasing a virus, or not taking antibiotics for their full cycle?
Re:OpenAI Charter by gone35 on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:42PM (#16796276)
No, not quite. I strongly suggest you familiarize yourself with the gain-of-function bioethics literature and recent debates, to get a better sense of what I'm trying to convey.
Re:OpenAI Charter by dsacco on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:51PM (#16796354)
Why don't you just summarize your actual point or at least provide further guidance? You literally posted a link without any further clarification about its relevance.

As it stands, you're not giving me any incentive to "strongly reconsider" my position.

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Re:OpenAI Charter by dsacco on Monday April 09, 2018 @04:14PM (#16796569)
I sound uncharitable because you posted a (from my perspectively, completely random) link to a research article in a different field and implored me to change my thinking, without any other commentary. That's not a substantive addition to the conversation, because on my end I have no idea whether to take your link seriously and how much time or effort to invest in learning about it.

After reading it for two minutes, it's not obvious how to take a productive insight about artificial intelligence from what seems to be an article about mutations. I offered my sincere first thought about what you might have meant and asked for further clarification, and you shot that down without any further clarification.

Now after I've twice asked you for clarification and you haven't provided it, you're telling me you're wasting your time. Do you see how this is unhelpful? It's borderline Kafkaesque.

Re:OpenAI Charter by nunya213 on Monday April 09, 2018 @04:29PM (#16796702)
He's probably suggesting that in Virology it's generally frowned upon to publish research on how to for instance make Smallpox airborne and as virulent as the Flu. So it could be wise to leave out the exact details on how to make an AI recursively self improving when publishing. If you've spent time in Research many groups already do this by leaving out small but critical details that make replication difficult or impossible. This is across fields not just CS/AI
Re:OpenAI Charter by gone35 on Monday April 09, 2018 @04:36PM (#16796755)
*She ---but yeah, as a first-order approximation, that's in the vicinity of it. Thanks!
Re:OpenAI Charter by p1esk on Monday April 09, 2018 @05:17PM (#16797091)
Ok, so this would lead to restricting initial access to strong AI to a few well funded corporate and government groups.

Very briefly though, because it's way easier to leak code than to obtain source material and tools to weaponize a deadly virus.

Re:OpenAI Charter by nunya213 on Monday April 09, 2018 @05:22PM (#16797128)
The exact details on how to make a Thermonuclear weapon are classified, do you think that is done so improperly?
Re:OpenAI Charter by p1esk on Monday April 09, 2018 @05:51PM (#16797307)
Are you comparing building a nuclear bomb to running a piece of code?
Re:OpenAI Charter by YeGoblynQueenne on Monday April 09, 2018 @08:30PM (#16798129)
Well, it depends on the piece of code, doesn't it? How many people can actually run Google's search engine on their own hardware? Assuming they had access to the code.
Re:OpenAI Charter by p1esk on Monday April 09, 2018 @08:39PM (#16798164)
See my response above.
Re:OpenAI Charter by nunya213 on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @01:17PM (#16803084)
We are talking about an actual AGI right which certainly has the potential to do damage comparable to Nuclear Weapons.
Re:OpenAI Charter by gone35 on Monday April 09, 2018 @07:17PM (#16797833)
Very briefly though, because it's way easier to leak code than to obtain source material and tools to weaponize a deadly virus.

True, but perhaps AGI would require substantial, non-trivial supercomputing resources as well...

Re:OpenAI Charter by p1esk on Monday April 09, 2018 @08:21PM (#16798088)
Let's say you need 1000 of p3.16xlarge instances to run it (that's 8k of V100 GPUs), that's $25,000/hour. So the launch price is within reach of most US programmers. After launch, a true AGI can probably find a way to stay "alive".
Re:OpenAI Charter by s1dechnl on Monday April 09, 2018 @02:46PM (#16795771)
It also depends on your capability to discover the underpinnings of Strong AI... Certain mindsets preclude one from doing so. If you truly understood the underpinnings of StrongAI and weren't moved to heavily restrict publicized details, I'd strongly question if what you had discovered/came to understand truly were 'underpinnings' of the technology.

As such, for those quick to publish or say they would publish and share details, one is able to quickly ascertain the possible strength of what they have discovered or feel they have the possibility of discovering. That being said, it's interesting that several proponents of 'everyone share what they find' have moved to more maturely state that 'restrictions may of apply'.. Sensibly signaling that they indeed wouldn't reveal certain details upon discovering their true nature and capability for obvious reasons (a danger to society to allow such power/capability to be detailed and therefore used in negative ways).

Human history has myriad examples of powerful technology being misused and abused. The current age of disinformation is one of our more modern ones. The way in which social media has been weaponized is yet another. Weak AI has already been used for destructive means and in manipulative manners for profit. A good deal of unsafe end products which utilize Weak AI are already fielded. The fielding of which made possibly by deep pockets manipulating policy makers and regulation.

A sensible mind capable of producing Strong AI will have observed and digested these clearly visible truths and it would move them to restrict access and publications of their works. Doing otherwise would highlight a level of ignorance, immaturity, and admission of truth when it comes to grasping the current state of humanity. It is this which would preclude one from grasping the nature and foundations of strongAI in the first place.

[Nature's lockout/safety mechanism for such a stage in Human development/capability]

Re:OpenAI Charter by dsacco on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:11PM (#16795988)
This is performance art, right? Your comments in this thread strain the limits of credulity. Do you actually believe there is an intellectual barrier that will helpfully ensure only the virtuous are capable of doing artificial intelligence research?
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Re:OpenAI Charter by dsacco on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:52PM (#16796361)
I don't really understand what you mean.
Re:OpenAI Charter by s2g on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:55PM (#16796389)
I was referring to the parent of your post.
Re:OpenAI Charter by s1dechnl on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:33PM (#16796197)
It could be many things. There is a spectrum of Human Intelligence. There is a spectrum of capability of Artificial Intelligence that can be produced by a spectrum of individual Human Intelligence. Do you believe, given many years of historical evidence and demonstration, that one's own personal limitations don't preclude them from certain discoveries? Do you think that money can solve every problem? Do you think if you throw enough PhDs in a room that you can solve any problem in the world? What is intelligence? What is its fundamental nature especially at higher orders? Does a truly and deeply intelligent individual focus on trivialities? Is money/fame their primary motivator? What would such an individual sacrifice for ultimate answers? What catches their eye? What keeps them up at night? If not virtuous, how do they not self destruct at the higher tiers of capability/intelligence? What keeps them together at the limits of comprehension/understanding? Why don't other paths appeal to them? Why don't they cut short and cash in along incremental achievements? What effect does this have on long term progress? Why/how do they think different then everyone else doing research? What is their failure rate? Why are they okay with possibly researching this problem their whole life and not getting an answer or not making money from their efforts? What then are they capable of doing that others are not? Lots of questions.. Lots of answers.. Ultimately