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Re:Android container in Chrome OS by reggieband on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:46PM (#16794651)
I just had a vision of all major OS projects providing developer containers for their projects. Like, you could just pull the latest Firefox dev container and run a single command to have a running debuggable app.

I know one of the major pains we have when on-boarding new people is the whole dance to get to that first working build / first meaningful change. I can imagine this being significantly more simple if a working dev environment was shipped as a container.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by moosingin3space on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:49PM (#16794670)
Gnome is moving in this direction by using Flatpak + Gnome Builder. They're also running CI inside the Flatpak environment.
Re:Android container in Chrome OS by jacksmith21006 on Monday April 09, 2018 @12:52PM (#16794699)
Exactly what Google has done with ChromeOS 67. You can run GNU/Linux applications as containers. But extra safe as a container on a separate kernel through a VM using KVM.

Versus they did Android as a container on the same Linux kernel as ChromeOS. But locked to only an Android container.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by reggieband on Monday April 09, 2018 @01:31PM (#16795047)
You mention "run GNU/Linux applications as containers" but is that a full dev environment? As in, I can open a cpp file or whatever, make a change, run a single command and I can see my changes?
Re:Android container in Chrome OS by jacksmith21006 on Monday April 09, 2018 @01:54PM (#16795260)
Yes a full dev environment as of ChromeOS 67.

How you want to use is your choice.

But it looks like Google will package GNU/Linux applications as containers that you can just run.

You can use what they have enabled in other ways as I am already doing on a PB with ChromeOS 67.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by 77ko on Monday April 09, 2018 @06:57PM (#16797714)
> You can run GNU/Linux applications as containers.

Do you need to run gnu/linux apps inside containers or can they just run inside the VM running on top of chromeos?

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by bryanlarsen on Monday April 09, 2018 @01:09PM (#16794850)
Many OS projects do this with Vagrant.
Re:Android container in Chrome OS by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday April 09, 2018 @01:52PM (#16795246)
You know, there once was a time when we did everything in folders and didn't need the overhead of containerization just to keep well behaved things from stepping all over each other and breaking everything.

Like all progress in computing we've reinvented the wheel, but now with a few additional layers of abstraction and the consequential performance degradation.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by saagarjha on Monday April 09, 2018 @03:38PM (#16796234)
> You know, there once was a time when we did everything in folders and didn't need the overhead of containerization just to keep well behaved things from stepping all over each other and breaking everything.

Those were the days…when we didn't have stupid watchdogs like memory protection and preemptive scheduling, and we all shared resources nicely and fairly, all the time. There were never crashes because someone touched memory that they weren't supposed to, or hangs because someone decided they were more important than all the other processes. No siree.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday April 09, 2018 @06:57PM (#16797711)
Way to name some completely orthogonal problems that existed at the time. I'm surprised you didn't mention needing to go to a library to look things up or tie up the phone line to use the internet.
Re:Android container in Chrome OS by saagarjha on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @06:58AM (#16800429)
> Way to name some completely orthogonal problems that existed at the time.

What? These aren't completely orthogonal at all, they all fall under the umbrella of "process isolation" and containerization. There's a reason we have safeguards for processes in place; it's because it's a lot better when you have something to police badly behaved software than to trust that everything will work well 100% of the time.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @10:45AM (#16801728)
Yes, I can see why orthogonal was a bad choice of words here.

Here's my point: those things mentioned were improvements on things that didn't work very well even for trusted applications that did nothing unreasonable.

When your development environment or even regular desktop software spreads itself all over the filehierarchy as a matter of practice, conflicting and interfering with every other application because it does the same thing, that's taking something that used to work just fine and breaking it. Then you add a layer of abstraction like containers to solve the mess you created.

Containers are a good idea for a lot of things, I just don't think I should need them to run normal everyday software.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by fauigerzigerk on Monday April 09, 2018 @02:21PM (#16795523)
>there once was a time when we did everything in folders

Not on Unix though. "Stepping all over each other" sounds like the guiding design principle behind Unix's folder structure and dynamic library loading aproach.

Docker's isolation is far more than just isolation of files and folders. It's more like J2EE for Linux :)

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by Phrodo_00 on Monday April 09, 2018 @02:04PM (#16795367)
> keep well behaved things from stepping all over each other and breaking everything

Containers help with keeping bad behaviors from stepping all over each other.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Monday April 09, 2018 @06:59PM (#16797720)
Yes, that's their value. You shouldn't need to use them for your development environment or normal every day software.

Unless of course you're saying that most software in the GNU/Linux world is badly behaved, which I'd kind of agree with.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by sigjuice on Monday April 09, 2018 @09:51PM (#16798432)
Containers also decrease the likelihood of bad behaviors getting fixed.
Re:Android container in Chrome OS by oblio on Tuesday April 10, 2018 @06:46AM (#16800374)
When was that time?!? Do you have a time machine so I can go there?

That never happened... Maybe it happened in some tight academic environment for a few years, but once the cat was out of the academic environment, it basically never happened.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by josephfrazier on Monday April 09, 2018 @07:35PM (#16797907)
> Like, you could just pull the latest Firefox dev container and run a single command to have a running debuggable app.

https://janitor.technology/ is attempting to provide a web-based version of this. Haven't yet used it myself, but it sounds promising.

Re:Android container in Chrome OS by exikyut on Monday April 09, 2018 @08:55PM (#16798212)
I somehow highly doubt they're building all of Firefox in that demo video... heheh
Re:Android container in Chrome OS by slim on Monday April 09, 2018 @07:19PM (#16797841)
You mean you want a statically linked binary?