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Re:The End of Windows by pjmlp on Monday April 02, 2018 @09:57AM (#16734482)
Yep, the other day I was also pretty amazed how using VS Code alongside Rust, for writing a Gtk-rs application, managed to hang X forcing me to reboot the whole thing.

With the open source AMD drivers.

Re:The End of Windows by pjc50 on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:25AM (#16734716)
One of the more amazing bits of technology in Windows is that which allows the graphics drivers to crash and restart without taking down the system. They've spent so long fighting buggy third parties that this is the solution.
Re:The End of Windows by Asooka on Monday April 02, 2018 @11:19AM (#16735244)
One thing I love about debugging on Windows is that a program being debugged cannot grab the mouse and keyboard. On Linux, if you break a program that has a context menu open, you can say goodbye to your ability to interact with the PC.
Re:The End of Windows by badsectoracula on Monday April 02, 2018 @12:37PM (#16736159)
You can enable grab break actions with "setxkbmap -option grab:break_actions" and then use Ctrl+Alt+KP/ to break grabs and Ctrl+Alt+KP* to kill the applications with grabs (note that setxkbmap -option blah adds the blah option to the existing options, which might interfere with this - you can try and reset all options by typing just "setxkbmap -option" without a parameter and then typing "setxkbmap -option grab:break_actions").

This is useful both when debugging and when dealing with broken applications.

Re:The End of Windows by majewsky on Monday April 02, 2018 @01:34PM (#16736864)
I believe this is one of things that Wayland fixes. (Unless, of course, neither your debugger and application support Wayland natively and they both end up running in XWayland.)
Re:The End of Windows by jacquesm on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:33AM (#16734775)
QnX did that in ... 1983.
Re:The End of Windows by pjc50 on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:35AM (#16734795)
I too remember the QnX demo disk with a web browser and desktop environment on a single floppy. But Linux still doesn't do this kind of isolation, partly due to philosophical opposition.

Edit for the audience: http://toastytech.com/guis/qnxdemo.html

Re:The End of Windows by jacquesm on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:40AM (#16734833)
In the famous Torvalds - Tanenbaum discussion Torvalds got it terribly wrong, but Linux was good enough to get off the ground anyway so in the longer term might made right. But a microkernel based Linux would have been a serious game changer rather than a re-run. After all we already had plenty of free Unixes back then, and the descendants of those are all still more or less alive today.

The major sticking point in that whole discussion is that Tanenbaum may have been right in principle but Minix was not a very good illustration of what a micro kernel could look like. QnX on the other hand was awesome and to this day powers a very large chunk of the embedded sphere.

Re:The End of Windows by pjmlp on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:48AM (#16734891)
Tanenbaum was certainly right, given the adoption of micro-kernel like architectures across the industry, specially on embedded.

Even containers are a kind of workaround for achieving the same goals.

Re:The End of Windows by jacquesm on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:51AM (#16734912)
I still have a clone of 32 bit QnX sitting on my harddrive, maybe one day I'll have enough time and energy to attempt to port it to x64 and/or Arm 64.
Re:The End of Windows by FractalLP on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:55AM (#16734945)
I'm not sure comparing an RTOS to a really old school monolithic kernal is fair. Windows wasn't designed to be like QnX. I really wish QnX was open source though and had a thriving community behind it.
Re:The End of Windows by jacquesm on Monday April 02, 2018 @11:01AM (#16735014)
It's perfectly fair. QnX had a fully functional desktop environment and a large chunk of functionality that experimental OS's like Plan9 popularized.

Whether or not Windows as designed to be like QnX is immaterial, the question is what would be the better OS to serve as the engine behind a computer interacting with its users and my vote definitely goes to a real time operating system using a micro kernel. Because in my opinion that's by far the best match for that workload.

Stability, speed of interaction driver isolation and so on are much much better when using something like QnX vs a monolith. And a GUI is a real time affair.

Re:The End of Windows by erric on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:06AM (#16734544)
I have been quite impressed with VS Code. I’m....honestly shocked I’m using it but it’s doing what it advertises and is doing it pretty well. Sublime is getting less use these days.
Re:The End of Windows by Fnoord on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:16AM (#16734627)
Memory consumption and speed are apparently not important for you then, and that's fair enough. To each their own. I can only use so many resource hogs before my laptop says no. It starts with battery life and memory consumption. Speed (and benchmarks) is a good early warning sign.
Re:The End of Windows by pjmlp on Monday April 02, 2018 @10:41AM (#16734837)
I only use it because it is the best Rust experience on GNU/Linux and I am not willing to pay for CLion just for the debugger.

For everything else I do use native editors.

Re:The End of Windows by thedoctor79 on Monday April 02, 2018 @11:08AM (#16735117)
Tip: when X hangs, press Ctrl-Alt-F1 or F2 to switch to console mode, then Ctrl-Alt-F7 (or F8 on some distros) to go back to X. While in terminal mode you can investigate which process is reponsible for the X issue (high CPU? memory? disk I/O?) If that does not fix it, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace will kill X and every X application and you won't have to reboot.
Re:The End of Windows by pjmlp on Monday April 02, 2018 @11:48AM (#16735591)
That only works if console mode and X escape keys are configured.

Which is usually not the case on desktop oriented distributions.

Re:The End of Windows by badsectoracula on Monday April 02, 2018 @12:40PM (#16736194)
X escape is usually not configured, but personally i haven't seen any desktop distribution to disable virtual terminals. Regardless, even if that is the case, it only takes a single PC restart for you to notice that the terminals are disabled and enabled them back so next time you need them they'll be there.
Re:The End of Windows by pjmlp on Monday April 02, 2018 @12:56PM (#16736394)
Yep, now explain that to a regular macOS/Windows user.