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Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by cup-of-tea on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @03:49PM (#16692119)
I don't understand why more people don't understand this. Each "post" is a record with a field called "deleted". You can make that field True. You can't remove that record.

"Deleting" only gives the database owner one more piece of information about you: that you wanted to delete that record.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by odammit on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @06:33PM (#16693410)
I assume the did some sort of paranoid delete. I was thinking of getting rid of my Facebook account (once I deal with oauth) and I was thinking if it would be better to delete my account or write a script to flood it with garbage.

I was thinking of having it run as a cron on my laptop. Log in via chromedriver, accept a random couple of suggested friends. Download some random images and upload it tagging myself. Grab some random comments off twitter and post it as my own. Like random posts. Remove a few real friends. Repeat.

Maybe even Facebook Munging as a Service. :D

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by FridgeSeal on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @06:54PM (#16693581)
I've been entertaining this idea for a while.

Train a NN/markov chain on enough of my own and publicly available facebook posts and comments that I can make it spew out realistic-looking posts and comments on demand.

Make another script that likes and unlikes pages, joins and leaves groups.

Make another that uploads random photos (or randomly generated image content) and tags me in them.

Stitch them all together into something that runs all of those on my account, generate so much noise that it becomes a tedious exercise to identify real comments and posts simply by virtue of volume.

For bonus points, run it from my home computer.

Would it be perfect? Probably not, there's probably way more you could do to simulate a real user, but it'd make a fun project if nothing else.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by _emacsomancer_ on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:03PM (#16693629)
A lazy implementation of this idea might be to just have it post content from https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditSimulator/
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by FridgeSeal on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:46PM (#16693848)
You say lazy, I say making use of existing resources :P (or not re-inventing the wheel).

Seriously though, Subreddit Simulator is probably actually a pretty good idea: a lot of them come with a handy image/gif attached and occasionally you get results that could pass as being written by a human.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by odammit on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:16PM (#16693700)
That sounds human, albeit confusing. Very cool!
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by smoyer on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @09:20PM (#16694370)
I was thinking the same thing ... but I was going to steal random content from the Twitter firehose. You'll want a bit of smarts behind it so that it's not obviously you (e.g. don't post much when you'd normally be sleeping). It's relatively easy to automate a browser to do this these days (giving you a realistic user-agent and behavior). You'll also want to avoid registering key-presses at an unrealistic (or constant) rate. Apparently you can even be identified by your typing. I guess you could train it on your actual typing but that might be overkill.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by nextlevelwizard on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:55AM (#16696163)
You will probably always lose.

It is someones daily job to try rand enrich the data they are getting from you, you are working on your bot(s) on your spare time. You just purely can not spend as much resources to keep ahead of the algorithm.

EvilCorp™ will always gain more benefit out of adapting the algorithm to even include/exclude your bot since they get profit gains across the board.

More over you need to spend a lot of time on your bot(s) to make them blend in. I'm not saying; "don't do it", I'm saying; "it is going to be hard to get real benefits"

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by lixquid on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:33AM (#16696709)
It's asymmetric; it is significantly easier to make a clear image harder to read than it is making a fuzzy image clearer, and the same applies to data sets.

There might be swaths of teams all focused on enriching the data, but you eventually can't derive more information out of a deliberately flat information graph, and all it takes is a few extreme data points to distort the average.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by odammit on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:15PM (#16693695)
It certainly would I dont know what a Markov chain is but it sounds cooler than me dot rand'ing my way through random twitter posts.

Yeah, Oauth and events is the only thing keeping me on FB. Although, I believe they opened up their event system to non-fb users, probably so they could build shadow profiles.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by hmd_imputer on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:49AM (#16696957)
Once Facebook algorithms detect that your account is managed by bots, they can simply discard whatever you did since you started the bots, rendering your efforts useless. I am guessing it wouldn't be that hard to detect account anomaly for Facebook - any abnormal activity, such as liking an unliking pages several times a day, sending random people friend requests etc.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by Pokepokalypse on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @01:05PM (#16699531)
Great idea, and hilarious, BUT: you're going to end up spamming the crap out of your REAL friends with all the nonsense you post, so I think step one would be to block or de-friend anyone you care about in your social graph, first.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by odammit on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:35PM (#16703516)
That’s perfect! Because then they would start removing me as a friend and the whole process wouldn’t be one-sided :-)
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by odammit on Friday April 06, 2018 @10:48AM (#16773614)
Someone went and did this :D

https://gitlab.com/danso/derivejoy

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by cortesoft on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:39PM (#16702688)
Even that doesn't guarantee your previous data is gone; nothing is preventing them from maintaining a history of changes, meaning they would have both your new, munged, data AND your older data, pre-munge.

Not sure what you are gaining with this.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by odammit on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:33PM (#16703505)
My “data” would be a cluster fuck, technically speaking.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:41AM (#16695885)
If you are in the EU and press delete and the database owner (data controller) does not delete the post then the database owner is now breaking the law. As of ?may? this will carry significant fines.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by plopilop on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:53AM (#16696376)
I don't think it's the case yet. GDPR will enforce the right to be forgotten and as such truly delete data about you, but other than that, I don't think there are other regulations forcing you to delete data.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:17AM (#16696649)
This is why I said as of ?may?. The GDPR comes into force this year.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by jjeaff on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @11:58AM (#16698780)
I'm not familiar with the specifics of the law, but my guess would be that it does not require that something be deleted upon any delete button click. I would assume it requires full deletion when requested through proper channels.

There are plenty of cases where a system would not function correctly if you are actually erasing DB entries when a user clicks the delete button. In many cases, even the users themselves might expect to be able to undo or go to a delete list and see entries that were deleted.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by some_account on Thursday March 29, 2018 @02:30PM (#16709707)
At my company, I heard them discussing deleting the data the user requested within 1 month.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by plopilop on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @11:55AM (#16698737)
Oh, my bad, I misunderstood your sentence.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by thunfischbrot on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:10AM (#16696012)
Let's wait and see, I would guess that we are going to see the first cases within the coming five years.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:18AM (#16696658)
Why be the test case? Your company will be severely impacted by a fine.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by TomMarius on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:22AM (#16696669)
No, they're required to delete data if you specifically ask them to (they most probably will change "delete account" to "deactivate" and you'll have to send them a snail mail request if you want a complete removal) and they're not obliged to delete data partially - it's either this (deleted=true) or whole account.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:25AM (#16696870)
I suggest that you consult a lawyer.

EDIT: In my layman's opinion pressing that button is an explicit request to delete the data. Also the kind of behavior you are suggesting is not private-by-default and goes against the spirit of the law. I don't think that a judge will look kindly on it.

I am not a lawyer. I am not your lawyer. I suggest that you consult a lawyer.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by TomMarius on Thursday March 29, 2018 @07:59AM (#16706261)
Yes, but right now the law does not apply. In the future they probably will change 'delete' to 'hide' or even get rid of this option and then the rest of what I said applies. I incorrectly said that "they're" instead of "they'll be".
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by avoutthere on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:40AM (#16697209)
How does the EU propose to enforce this?
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by Aengeuad on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:33AM (#16697489)
Fines of up to 4% of worldwide revenue or €20 million, whichever is larger. Proving that the data is actually deleted is another matter, but the potential upper bounds of the fines alone place a pretty big incentive on treating all data as if it's tainted.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by jjeaff on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @12:03PM (#16698851)
Many smaller tech companies aren't even chasing the European market yet. My guess is that this will make it an even less attractive market.

That being said, the jury is still out on whether the EU can successfully collect fines from exclusively US based companies.

Large corporations like Google or Facebook have a presence in the EU and can be fined directly. Good luck in the courts enforcing gdpr to US only companies who have no servers or physical presence there. I imagine it will be a difficult process and not worth the effort in most cases.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by Pokepokalypse on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @01:01PM (#16699494)
I suspect this is EXACTLY why Cambridge Analytica is located in the UK, and EXACTLY why, they promoted the Brexit campaign: so that they would be exempt from EU privacy laws.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by fredley on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @07:58AM (#16697003)
This is why I'm waiting until the GDPR kicks in before deleting my account!
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by prepend on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:17AM (#16697086)
How does the database owner verify that they deleted you?
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by vincvinc on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:32PM (#16692475)
IANAL, but isn’t "true deletion" legally required under GDPR?

Wouldn't leaving personal data lying around in your database like this technically leave you liable to massive fines?

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by scrollaway on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:42PM (#16692541)
AFAIK GDPR mandates that deleted data is no longer processed (used for marketing, analyzed, etc). I don't remember it saying anything about the data "existing"; nor could it given how backups work in our industry.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by metaobject on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:47PM (#16692582)
Furthermore, I'd imagine that the host might be required to retain those records for law enforcement purposes (imagine if someone made death threats, etc and law enforcement requested those records for an investigation).
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by zaarn on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:00AM (#16695970)
GDPR does have exceptions for legal compliance, yes. If someone does something illegal and they request deletions you can (IMO, not a lawyer) retain the records if you know there is an investigation or court case going or strongly suspect so or initiate it yourself.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:25AM (#16696680)
You may even be able to keep comments/posts for longer for general compliance. You will need an audit explaining why and to be prepared to defend it. You won't be able to use such data for analytics.

This is based on my personal layman's understanding. I am NOT a lawyer. I am NOT your lawyer. If you need legal advice consult a competent lawyer in your jurisdiction.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by HenryBemis on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:09AM (#16697371)
Legal/Regulatory compliance is not for Facebook or Amazon.

It is to prevent people going to their Bank, where they have a credit card or a consumer loan, or a mortgage, and say "can I please be forgotten/be wiped from your systems - oh and the loan too!".

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by microcolonel on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:48PM (#16692591)
> I don't remember it saying anything about the data "existing"; nor could it given how backups work in our industry.

You just store the keys separately, assuming one-way encryption (losing the key) counts as deletion.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by talaketu on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @09:06PM (#16694299)
IANAL - no idea what "erasure" as in the "Right to erasure" means http://www.privacy-regulation.eu/en/article-17-right-to-eras...

But... if deleted data is no longer processed, does that mean it can not longer be used for targeting etc?

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:43AM (#16695894)
It means deleted as in gone.

Your backups should be cycled after a few months and the deleted data will eventually not be present in any backups.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by thomed on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @10:22PM (#16694705)
There’s a bunch of cases where a business should not delete data even if requested by a user; the biggie is crime/fraud prevention. However, if that data was later disclosed in a breach the company would be subject to penalties. The request for removal does count as rescinding consent, so you would no longer be able to do anything that required consent anyhow.

Data could be thought of as radioactive so long as it has a unique identifier. If you can aggregate your fraud detection data in some way to remove the pseudonymous/personal identifiers then you should. If you can’t, then your usecase needs to justify the risk of keeping that radioactive material around.

Watch out that your aggregates can’t be reverse engineered though. There’s a reasonableness test around how easy it would be to recompile a users profile etc. As technology advances things that were once unreasonable become reasonable think md5). I find it helpful to think of reasonableness being connected to the best 10 people you recently interviewed, or the actions of any competitor in the space. If a prosecutor can point to the competitor and ask why you didn’t do what they did, you need a very good reason to pass reasonableness.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by freeone3000 on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @05:25PM (#16692873)
Prove we didn't delete it.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by simias on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @05:52PM (#16693086)
It would be extremely risky for such a huge company to pull a stunt like that. All it would take is for one employee to become a whistleblower to put the company into a legal and PR quagmire. And all that for what? Losing 0.1% of their data because of people deleting their account? Not worth it IMO.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by TheSpiceIsLife on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:03PM (#16693628)
In which event Huge Company finds the lowest level employee they can reasonably pin the blame on.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by isostatic on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @07:30PM (#16693774)
But they still get fined 4% of their global revenue. A few $1.5bn fines and they'll learn how to delete.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by TheSpiceIsLife on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:19AM (#16695786)
I haven’t read the relevant (proposed?) legislation, but aren’t these sorts of penalties usually written as ”fines up to x”?
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by zaarn on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @03:02AM (#16695977)
The EU has recognized that a 200 million fine won't hurt facebook. Instead it says "fines up to X€ or Y% of global turnover, whichever is higher."

I also strongly suspect that in cases like FB or Google, the judges will happily go for the 4% mark if possible.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by TheSpiceIsLife on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:08AM (#16696216)
Ok, great thanks for clearing that up.

Yes, this is a good thing, in opinion. There was a case where a Finnish man was fine 54,000 Euro for speeding, where the fine is calculated based on income[1]. I think this seems like a reasonable way of metering our penalties.

It seems reasonable to me companies should be treated in a similar manner.

1. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-31709454

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by zaarn on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:24AM (#16696272)
Atleast for regulations like these, yeah. Big corps like facebook don't care if they get hit with 200 M€. 4% of Facebook's global turnover however...

I'm sure the EU will find some way to spend 2 billion € for something useful. (13% of their net income btw)

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by isostatic on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @05:48AM (#16696551)
Yes. A minor technical cockup when the company is attempting to meet the spirit of the law wouldn't be treated as harshly as a systematic failure, or a deliberate attempt to work around the spirit by following the letter.

If facebook discover a backup from 2012 on a tape that hasn't had items deleted, and adapt their processes so it doesn't happen again, they won't be hit with a $1b fine. If they deliberately refuse to delete people's data as a policy, they will be.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:44AM (#16695901)
This one is at least...
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by simias on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @04:25AM (#16696281)
Maybe I'm naive but I'm not sure how you could spin something as fundamental as "deleting does not actually delete anything" as the work of one rogue employee. What would said employee have to gain from it anyway?

I'm sure Facebook would do anything it could to work around these regulations and lobby as much as possible to have them overturned but I doubt they're reckless enough to simply ignore them and hope for the best.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by prepend on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:21AM (#16697112)
Pretty easy. Develop code to delete. Code doesn’t work as “designed” and just makes the qc/qa think data was deleted. Automated analysis keeps using it.

No human ever directly accessed data so they don’t “know” it exists.

Ad targeter or whatever needs the data keeps working.

This seems like a trivial programming problem. I’m confused by the confusion.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by simias on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @09:31AM (#16697468)
You need people to develop and maintain this code, and it touches many aspects of architecture. Keeping it contained to a small team and avoiding any leaks doesn't seem trivial to me. What if some dev not in the know notices the issue and submits a fix or a bug report, what happens then? You introduce a pretty big management liability in your management if you need to protect yourself against your own employees. And what if the employee(s) you chose to throw under the bus in case the trick gets noticed decides to rat you out anyway, for fame, money or to avoid repercussions? How do you even find engineers willing to do something so unethical without raising suspicions in the others?

And again, all that for what? Keep profiles on the small minority of users who bother to scrub their profiles, even though these same users are probably not very good targets for ads in the first place? I don't think it would be very rational for Facebook to try something like that unless they're trying to be evil for the sake of being evil.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by unclebucknasty on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @05:48PM (#16693049)
It would require a whistleblower, which could definitely happen.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by daveFNbuck on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @06:10PM (#16693233)
Especially if they give a percentage of the fine to the whistleblower.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by sjwright on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @08:32PM (#16694104)
1% of 4% of Facebook's annual revenue sounds like a good deal to me. Who wouldn't be a whistleblower for $15MM
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by ionised on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @06:42AM (#16696738)
Prove a negative?

The onus should be on you to prove you did.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by asfdsfggtfd on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @02:43AM (#16695896)
Yes.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by CelestialTeapot on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @04:28PM (#16692435)
It's because most people are not computer scientists/hobbyists/engineers. They are laypeople whose knowledge of the internet, and computers in general, is very limited.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by jsemrau on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @05:10PM (#16692745)
One anecdote from my life. In university one of my best friends at the time found the browser function "view source" and was convinces he can now hack the website.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by prepend on Wednesday March 28, 2018 @08:33AM (#16697179)
I’ve probably had to explain at least 1000 times that our software being open source does not mean that people can edit the functionality of the software running on our servers.

One thing that is cool about all these pushes to teach every kid programming is that it might help instill “data values understanding.” Or whatever you call the source->object->runtime. And how data works.

Too many people confuse software with data “the data is in the app” and confuse it all with a book in a library. You just burn the book and it’s gone. Or you transfer the book from one library to another. This is a good metaphor for usage, but falls apart if you have privacy or security concerns.

Logic that seems natural and instinct to whatever you call people who program/use tech, is incorrectly understood by others. Especially “digital natives” who always had computers and Internet.

My kid has all of his files in google from forever. This breaks down in situations where Google’s interests are out of sync with his own.

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by JauntyHatAngle on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @08:09PM (#16693984)
I mean, depending on the quality of the website, he now can.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by bootloop on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @05:23PM (#16692851)
In the EU you can.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by kerng on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @10:11PM (#16694654)
Most often true, luckily for European citizens GDPR is changing that.
Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by DINKDINK on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @05:01PM (#16692686)
>I don't understand why more people don't understand this

Because of the round trip fallacy: People equate the absence of evidence as evidence of absence P(E|A) != P(A|E)

Re:How I Erased Facebook Comments and Likes by esturk on Tuesday March 27, 2018 @10:35PM (#16694772)
This can be used against them by updating uncompressible guassian white noise over and over... If what you said is true.