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Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by soniman on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @06:57AM (#16627409)
Basically they're going nuclear because Iran is. Saudi Arabia burns about $5B of oil in the summer to fuel air conditioners and it would be easy enough to run a natgas pipeline into the country (most Saudi natgas is used in the petrochemical industry) but Saudi doesn't want to be a fossil fuel importer, too humiliating. None of it makes much sense, to be honest. The entire region is sitting on massive amounts of natgas or solar potential so there is no reason other than prestige or bombs to go nuclear.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by realusername on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:39AM (#16627622)
> solar potential

If I recall there's too much dust in Saudi Arabia for the solar panels to be any useful (and not enough rain to remove it). Here is some article on the subject: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2013/ph240/alshakhs2/. Nuclear would make more sense there.

Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by Retric on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:57AM (#16627718)
Dust is a killer for consitrating solar power, but much less so for PV. You can also clean them with minimal water useage. It's just a tradeoff of how much desalination is worth it for efficiency gains.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by emiliobumachar on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:38AM (#16627972)
Interesting. How about "cleaning" them with salt water? Sure the salt on the panels is not ideal, but it's better than dust.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by Retra on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @09:44AM (#16628461)
Saltwater tends to be lead to corrosion, which is expensive to deal with.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by raverbashing on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @09:00AM (#16628134)
Salt water + electricity = not good

Study mentions up to 50% of efficiency decrease after 6mo

Seems like the best solution would be mechanical cleaning (either automatic or manual)

Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by pjc50 on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:07AM (#16628639)
The panels are sealed against ingress in any case.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by ams6110 on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @09:07AM (#16628187)
Gaskets + insulators = problem solved.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by ams6110 on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @09:06AM (#16628179)
Some sort of "spray and squeegee" system would likely even remove most of the salt. Windshield wipers for PV panels?
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by rgbrenner on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:42AM (#16628958)
your link says they can just clean them once a week. that's a solved problem:

http://www.ecoppia.com/technology/

https://us.sunpower.com/blog/2017/12/04/meet-sunpowers-new-s...

or you can use a $100k panel washing truck: https://wash-bots.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/product2.jp...

A $100k expense and a person to drive it around cannot be a reasonable roadblock to solar, when we're talking about 100s of millions of dollars for one solar plant.

Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by sametmax on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:04AM (#16627756)
This is assuming the panel are close to the ground and not mirrors.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by newnewpdro on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:02AM (#16627438)
Bombs. [1]

An acquaintance who works in the oil industry relocated to Saudi Arabia for the express purpose of developing their fracking industry. He said they were burning unrefined crude oil for power generation, and were pivoting to natural gas.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/middleeast/saudi-arabia-iran-...

Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by adrianN on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:22AM (#16627547)
They could just build solar to run their aircons. It's a perfect match.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by 3pt14159 on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @07:30AM (#16627578)
Cheaper at scale in the long run too. Short of some unforeseen breakthroughs in non-typical nuclear like thorium.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by DennisP on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @08:59AM (#16628126)
It wouldn't be that unforeseen, there are a bunch of companies working on molten salt reactors and there don't appear to be any showstoppers. The main issue is getting regulators to wrap their heads around it, but Terrestrial Energy in Canada got through the first stage of regulatory approval last year [1], and ThorCon appears to be making good progress with Indonesia [2]. Moltex is pursuing licensing in Canada as well [3], and thinks it could have its first reactor online as early as 2026 [4]. Terrapower has been awarded $40M from the DOE for their work on a molten chloride fast reactor [5].

[1] https://www.terrestrialenergy.com/2017/11/terrestrial-energy...

[2] https://medium.com/@bobsoef/indonesia-is-preparing-to-go-nuc...

[3] http://moltexenergy.com/news/details.aspx?positionId=85

[4] http://moltexenergy.com/files/cms/7_Moltex_Energy_Press_Rele...

[5] http://terrapower.com/technologies/mcfr

Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by 3pt14159 on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @10:32AM (#16628874)
I'm for guarded optimism here. The reality is that getting regulators to wrap their heads around it is a real cost. The public doesn't trust nuclear and these smaller ones don't produce medical isotopes, so regulators can't even fall back on saying grandma needs it. When the public says "why not solar?" the government should have a good answer. It makes sense in Canada (history of safe nuclear, large population base with knowledge in engineering, etc) but it doesn't make sense in Saudi Arabia short of nuclear arms capability.
Re:Oil-Rich Saudi Arabia Is Turning to Nuclear Power by DennisP on Tuesday March 20, 2018 @11:04AM (#16629153)
Regulation is a serious barrier in the U.S. but Canada is a lot more rational about new technologies.

Simple answer to "why not solar" is that we need power at night, and it's not clear that storage at large scale would be cost-competitive with molten salt reactors. (I think nuclear baseload with solar for extra daytime load makes a lot of sense, though.)

I once described molten salt reactors to a very anti-nuclear activist in the Green Party, and he said "hmm...that actually sounds pretty good."