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Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by neaden on Friday March 16, 2018 @12:22PM (#16601680)
I agree. In terms of being unrealistic I think it is important that we have to be able to picture a better world if we are going to obtain it. You want kids to know that certain things don't have to be the way they are, that the world can be a different place.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by gerbilly on Friday March 16, 2018 @01:31PM (#16602320)
Exactly.

Another notable show that tried to represent the future 'as it should be' was Star Trek.

It had a Russian and a black woman as officers an 'alien' as 2nd in command etc...

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by creep on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:00PM (#16602611)
Star Trek, to me, is more realistic to the inner workings of ourselves as social members and as individual minds/hearts than any other program that has before or since existed. It shows what the unknown feels like, it shows how each person is not only a member of the whole but also a complete whole in and of themselves, it shows not only compassion when things go wrong but also justice (angry justice or not). Everything is there on the final frontier! Literally the limits of human attainment and a drama within that exact scenario.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by skookumchuck on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:48PM (#16603013)
Star Trek has a lot of great aspects, but its model of utopian society is the "benevolent dictator" one. Captain Kirk is the dictator - he's brave, benevolent, incorruptible, and fixes everyone's problems by decree. His minions utterly lack ambition and selfish desires, and are ideally altruistic members of the collective.

It's a nice fantasy, but completely unworkable.

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by Jtsummers on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:50PM (#16603037)
Kirk was the captain of a ship, not of society. A ship captain is generally the dictator of their vessel.

There are certainly valid criticisms of the quasi-utopian vision of society in Star Trek, but that one ship was not meant as a model or microcosm of how the whole of their society was run. Just one aspect.

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by skookumchuck on Friday March 16, 2018 @03:40PM (#16603448)
> Kirk was the captain of a ship, not of society. A ship captain is generally the dictator of their vessel.

That's correct, but the Enterprise was clearly written as a metaphor for the perfect society. I've also seen it referred to as such by people wanting to create the perfect society.

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by Jtsummers on Friday March 16, 2018 @04:43PM (#16603893)
> That's correct, but the Enterprise was clearly written as a metaphor for the perfect society.

My perspective: I grew up in and around the military, I understand military command structures and I see them as distinct from our overall society. That doesn't mean that there is no place for that sort of structure within a society. Star Trek always appeared to me as representing that military structure within the overall structure of the Federation's society. In fact, most members of the Federation were not members of anything military-like (or so it's claimed in the show, you don't really see too much outside the ship and non-Federation planets). The ship, the Enterprise, never seemed like a metaphor for anything (the Federation, on the other hand, was clearly meant as an analog to the the US and most of Western Europe, or the direction Rodenberry thought they were headed).

> I've also seen it referred to as such by people wanting to create the perfect society.

I do not doubt that you've seen this. But I've, personally, only heard and read people reference the Federation as a perfect society, not the Enterprise. Until today.

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by skookumchuck on Friday March 16, 2018 @05:05PM (#16604014)
> Until today.

Not much is ever seen of the Federation in ST. But the parent I replied to, and its parent, are referring to the Enterprise.

Also, when I've seen references to ST as the model of utopia, Captain Kirk is often talked about front and center. Clearly, they are referring to the society on the Enterprise.

You can also see in this article cited later in this discussion:

http://grantland.com/features/next-generation-turns-25/

with quotes like this:

"and Picard’s personification of enlightened humanism"

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by kolpa on Friday March 16, 2018 @07:02PM (#16604589)
Picard was a model of a good leader. That doesn't mean a spaceship command is a model for how all society functions.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by creep on Friday March 16, 2018 @03:06PM (#16603170)
In Enterprise Picard was similar but often had his missteps and faults, which were usually helped along by the empath. Enterprise is what I was mainly speaking to, actually.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by krapp on Saturday March 17, 2018 @02:42PM (#16608373)
The original Star Trek and Captain Kirk as a character were much closer to portraying a "Navy in space" than the socialist ideals that would start to creep into TNG.

Although I find your criticism to be fair for TNG itself - when Roddenberry had greater creative control and the Federation began to be developer as having evolved beyond petty human desire and conflict, although there were some exceptions because sometimes the writers didn't get the memo (Barclay's OCD tendencies and Geordi keeping a holographic girlfriend come to mind) and it's just impossible to write good drama where all of the characters are just insufferably perfect. Even Superman has to have kryptonite.

But TOS is the series where McCoy is pretty openly racist towards Spock and where people get into fistfights all the time - it's a lot more grounded in plausible reality.

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by alexashka on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:42PM (#16602971)
For those who don't know much about it - can you recommend which series to watch? I googled it and there seems to be a great deal of variety.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by mjevans on Friday March 16, 2018 @05:05PM (#16604017)
I'd personally recommend:

    * The Next Generation (starting point, but be prepared to sit through the slower first seasons).
    * DS9
    * Voyager (however optionally skip anything from the Kess seasons that you feel like)
I only liked about 1/3rd of Star Trek Enterprise episodes, the entire series is kind of filler. Has that same wasted potential feeling that I got from Stargate Universe; it COULD have been more interesting if the pacing had been better and if they had focused on fitting the stories in to an overall plotline (much more like Babylon 5; which, BTW, you should TOTALLY watch if you haven't).

Star Trek Discovery was good, but is more an edgier more action packed thriller kind of series than the earlier series. I do like where they're going with rebooting the overall universe though and I feel that this brings the modern FX capacity in to the series in a way that makes sense for today.

For something you can show to your parents or if you generally don't get Star Trek, the Orville is a GREAT comedy focused take on the ideas that Star Trek (everything) classically presented, but covering modern social issues.

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by creep on Friday March 16, 2018 @03:08PM (#16603188)
I recommend The Next Generation. I find the crew in that series to be more variable and interesting, and the production is obviously more modern. You might be interested in the crew member Data, who is an android, considering the tech nature of HN!
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by hathawsh on Friday March 16, 2018 @03:39PM (#16603445)
I too recommend TNG. If you get to the end of the series and you still want more, there's also Voyager, which is essentially the same as TNG and slightly more modern.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by mortenjorck on Friday March 16, 2018 @04:17PM (#16603714)
As a companion read to diving into (or back into) ST:TNG, I have to recommend what is still quite possibly the best pop-culture essay I've ever read: http://grantland.com/features/next-generation-turns-25/
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by skookumchuck on Friday March 16, 2018 @05:17PM (#16604095)
I'm more a fan of the original. The moral lesson taught every TNG episode so bludgeoned the viewer I tired of it and stopped watching.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by DonHopkins on Saturday March 17, 2018 @02:13PM (#16608237)
I really enjoyed Deep Space 9, too. It's got a comedic twist, and I just can't get enough of Quark and the other Ferengi. The Grand Nagus Zek, whose mellifluous voice I was sure I'd heard somewhere before, turns out to be played by Wallace Shawn, the "inconceivable" guy from the Princess Bride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG_A0IOCfdM

One of the important ongoing themes is the relationship between Commander Sisko and his son Jake, which this article is about:

Deep Space Nine Is TV’s Most Revolutionary Depiction of Black Fatherhood

http://www.vulture.com/2018/01/deep-space-nine-revolutionary...

Here's an interesting interview with Avery Brooks (Sisko) and Rene Auberjonois (Odo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnWmATqfebQ

Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by Erlangolem on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:58PM (#16603111)
The original is a great place to start, especially if you don’t mind older media. The first 3 original movies are also exceptional. After that comes Star Trek: The Next Generation, which is my personal favorite. If you’re still hooked, and don’t mind a change of pace and scenery (and in both cases, a slow start) Star Trek: Deep Space 9, and later Voyager would be the order for it.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by classichasclass on Friday March 16, 2018 @02:25PM (#16602822)
Don't forget Barney Collier in Mission: Impossible, who was not only a black man critical to national security, but also a brilliant engineer.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by DonHopkins on Saturday March 17, 2018 @02:18PM (#16608255)
I'm bistellar. I love both Star Trek and Star Wars.
Re:Long Live Mister Rogers' Quiet Revolution by Erlangolem on Friday March 16, 2018 @01:50PM (#16602512)
Visualization of success has been strongly suggested as an effective means to gain success in athletics, weight loss, and more. It’s magic, and it can go to far, but the healthy form is just what you said: a vision of how things could be, an something to strive for. Imagining yourself crossing the finish line won’t make up for a total lack of fitness and training, but if you’re physically prepared, it can definitely help. Focusing on the goal rather than discouraging outcomes is part of mental preparedness.