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Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by abalone on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:38PM (#16586648)
"Fake it til you make it" generally refers to acting like you believe in yourself even if you're filled with self-doubt. Not actual fraud.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by ChuckMcM on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:58PM (#16586833)
As with anything there is the way in which something is offered and the way in which it is consumed. I have encountered many people who have internalized "fake it" to mean "pretend that you are hitting all your milestones and you executing against your plan". These folks see this as a way to keep the questions of why they aren't actually doing all of that at bay because later when they are "making it" those questions will be irrelevant.

For example you lie about how your marketing efforts are reaching customers who are signing up in droves while you use mechanical turk and other techniques to make the observable metrics go up. At some point your visibility reaches the point where you actually are reaching your customers and so you can stop doing the shady stuff. By doing this you avoid the inefficiency of the whole "we aren't sure you can do this" discussion which helps no one.

On the outside, one clean narrative, traction and growth from day 1, now a multi-million (or billion) dollar business. Or as my Grandfather would say, all yummy sausage and no discussion at all about what not-yummy things are in there too.

Everyone should believe in themselves. That is just a given, if you don't (or can't) then you won't reach your expectation. There isn't any "faking" there as far as I can see (unless it is suppressing your own doubts about the effort).

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by timr on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:10PM (#16587434)
"I have encountered many people who have internalized "fake it" to mean "pretend that you are hitting all your milestones and you executing against your plan". These folks see this as a way to keep the questions of why they aren't actually doing all of that at bay because later when they are "making it" those questions will be irrelevant."

This is 100% correct. I also know a fair number entrepreneurs who engage (or have engaged) in exactly what you describe. Also, it's a short and murky step from many of the "naughty" stories that are lauded in entrepreneur lore, to outright fraud. Too often, we make post hoc rationalizations for unethical behavior, based on outcome.

It's a huge dilemma if you want to behave ethically, but you're competing with lots of people who don't have that limitation.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by pdkl95 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @04:02PM (#16587805)
> it's a short and murky step ... to outright fraud.

Staying vigilant against the normalization of deviance[1] is difficult even in ideal situations. Choosing to normalize deviance as a business strategy is practically guaranteed to rapidly accelerate deviations from acceptable behavior.

In any system - including every business - resilience and safety means fixing small problems before they grow into bigger, more damaging problems[2].

> rationalizations for unethical behavior

Often, it doesn't even need to be rationalized. When deviant behavior is slowly normalized in small steps, the human mind tends to only see the "small, insignificant problems", and often skips[3] over big changes that should be "obvious".

[1] https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Professionalism/Diane_Vaughan_...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGLYEDpNu60

[3] https://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/se367/10/presentation_local...

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by jnwatson on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:04PM (#16588730)
You've hit the nail on the head with "normalization of deviance".

First you shade the truth slightly. You're uncomfortable at first, but the line seems to work, so you try it again. You use it another 10 times and you start to believe it.

And then you shade the truth a little more. After the hundredth pitch, you're a fabulist, and you barely noticed.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by DoreenMichele on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @06:13PM (#16588803)
Well, TBF, if you are doing something genuinely new, it can be hard to figure out what's real and what's not. It can be hard to figure out what are meaningful metrics and what aren't.

I was sympathetic to the Theranos side of things until I learned they actually submitted fraudulent test data. That was the point where it became clear to me they were not confused as to where to draw some line. They were being willfully deceptive. Deception like that doesn't grow out of confusion. It grows out of clarity that you are selling BS.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by tripzilch on Friday March 16, 2018 @08:50AM (#16600260)
> For example you lie about how your marketing efforts are reaching customers who are signing up in droves while you use mechanical turk and other techniques to make the observable metrics go up

> By doing this you avoid the inefficiency of the whole "we aren't sure you can do this" discussion which helps no one.

Pretty sure that it would help investors differentiate between those who can actually make it, and those merely good at faking it and making observable metrics go up ... especially if the ones actually capable of making the <big thing> don't make the metrics go up quite as high as the ones putting their effort into faking it.

And like another commenter said, that difference might well be worth billions.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by jasonlotito on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:57PM (#16587766)
> I have encountered many people who have internalized "fake it" to mean "pretend that you are hitting all your milestones and you executing against your plan".

This thread is the first time I've heard it applied seriously as to encourage lying and fraud.

Another similar common saying is "dress for the job you want, not the job you have." But sayings imply that you should act as if you've made it even if you haven't. You aren't "what you want to be," but you can present yourself in that way.

Finally, while you may have met many people who have turned "fake it" into lying and fraud, they are not the majority.

> Everyone should believe in themselves.

At least you admit here admit I'm right.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by siruncledrew on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @02:22PM (#16587057)
Yea, I think people blow up the saying out of context from self-confidence to business. If I say, "We're confident we can develop the machine learning technology to deploy X, even though we are currently using human checking" that's a lot different than saying "We can currently do all these things with this machine learning technology we developed" despite the technology not existing yet.

It's essentially someone stating a vision they have as reality, which is fraud.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by sgt101 on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @05:31PM (#16588476)
Yup agree; the gap between "we're confident we can" and actually doing it is.... v.a.s.t....
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by bonesss on Thursday March 15, 2018 @03:58AM (#16591088)
And the difference between those whose confidence was justified and those whose plans were 'a bridge too far' is... upwards of $900 Billion.

Every building is a blueprint at some point. Some jabroni pointing at the sky and describing what will be is part of the dilemma of innovation and construction.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by matte_black on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:43PM (#16586698)
You can believe in yourself without faking anything, and it’s healthy to do so.

Faking it implies you want to give others the impression you’re already a big shot, and it dilutes out the accomplishments of people who actually made it.

The downside should be that if you’re faking it and you don’t make it, your shame should be relentless and brutal, and no one should ever take you seriously again. Also, even if you make it you will feel alone and empty in your success, because everyone will have long thought you already “made it” and you have to continue hiding your true story. There is no one to celebrate with except those who are also in on it.

Where as if you would have just been humble and true to where you currently are, people have headroom to express sympathy and support should you encounter a setback.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by mnemonicsloth on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:49PM (#16587696)
> You can believe in yourself without faking anything...

I don't think so. Self-doubt is natural. Mandatory, really. Someone who never has moments of self-doubt is a bad investment risk; it means they probably aren't thinking hard enough about what could go wrong. But concealing those doubts is also mandatory: if you can't, it may be a sign that you have more problems than you know how to deal with.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by matte_black on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @04:19PM (#16587943)
It is not mandatory, it merely requires courage to go forward knowing you could fail and things could go wrong.

If you choose to ignore it and fake your way up, you are not being brave, you are being delusional. I'm not sure if delusional people are good investments.

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by gowld on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:54PM (#16586797)
aphorisms have established common meanings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fake_it_till_you_make_it

Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by matte_black on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @01:57PM (#16586822)
meanings are not immutable
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by heavenlyblue on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @03:13PM (#16587465)
No, you just don’t want to admit that you don’t really know the generally-agreed meaning of that phrase.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by OrganicMSG on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @02:04PM (#16586886)
I thought it was mainly about lying to others about how well you are doing, given that the central idea is that of giving an impression of success before you are successful, in order to gain access to the people and markets you require in order for you to become actually successful.
Re:Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charge... by SilasX on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @02:08PM (#16586923)
Most who give that advice are very imprecise about which deceptions they're endorsing.

Almost like they're asserting a confidence in a belief that isn't really merited -- wish we had a term for that.