News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by diego_moita on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @11:36AM (#16529891)
Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native country. Because a lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes.

This project is nothing more than a sharper and better diagnosis of topical symptoms. Unfortunately, the underlying disease remains without treatment. And if you allow me to explain such disease bluntly, here it is: the Brazilian voter is astonishingly stupid. Brazilians vote very, very badly. Politicians with a long and explicit history of corruption are routinely re-elected and remain very popular (e.g: Maluf, Sarney, Calheiros, Collor, Lula and almost everyone in the 3 big parties: PMDB, PSDB and PT).

There is even a standard justification for this behaviour, people say "rouba mas faz" (he steals but gets things done).

Like in most of the 3rd world and countries with authoritarian history, the overwhelming majority of the Brazilian voters don't understand how corruption, nepotism, patronage and incompetence affects them. I bet Turkey, Russia, Poland and Hungary are the same. Democracy goes far beyond the formal institutions, you need a civic heart, a belief within every citizen's mind that the public good matters a lot and affects everyone. In most 3rd world countries people just don't "get" this.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by binthere on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:55PM (#16531042)
I could probably be considered a "vira-lata" too as probably many other Brazilians that lost hope at their countries. But I welcome any initiative from people that did not. I think that a "better diagnosis" is a step forward to a better "treatment".

I think that the stupid voter behavior is not part of the DNA of Brazilians. It is something that can change even if it looks very hard to do it. A lot of Brazilians are actually very tired of corruption, they know pretty well how bad things can get when politicians steal public money regardless of their level of education. They know it is that bad. Teachers don't get paid, policemen going on strikes, bridges falling, economy in shambles, etc. It affects their daily lives and it keeps getting worse.

I think that the "Rouba mas faz" might be true in some places but not everywhere. Now, think about it: you feel hopeless when you know that it's a problem but you don't know any better how to vote. How could you know? How can you trust 100% on someone else's integrity to represent you, specially in Brazil? It is at this point that the problem needs to be tackled from multiple angles. One of them being this initiative. Changing legislation, which happened, in regards to how campaign are run and who is eligible to become a candidate, punishing those who stole public money (Maluf is still in jail, Cabral is in jail, no everyone is in jail but justice is working now).

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by onetimemanytime on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @11:50AM (#16529990)
>>Like in most of the 3rd world ...voters don't understand how corruption, nepotism, patronage and incompetence affects them. All the above in US is called "lobbying" and it's legal, so you really can't jail anyone for it.

USA voters don't do much better, don't worry. We just have a printing machine that churns out new dollars at record pace so we face no debt deadlines.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by TremendousJudge on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:02PM (#16530093)
Brazil is much, much worse off than the US. There the corruption goes all the way to the lowest levels of government. In the US local politicians don't pay a couple of bucks to a thousand dirt poor voters to vote in the county elections so they can win. In Brazil this happens everywhere.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by neves on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:16PM (#16530205)
It is very usual to buy votes in USA:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/selling...

"The price of one bona fide, registered American vote varies from place to place. But it is rarely more than a tank of gas."

A good book that descibes it is "Washington, D.C: A Novel (Narratives of Empire)." of Gore Vidal.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by argonaut on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @03:19AM (#16535035)
Did you read your own article? It says: "Voter fraud, by any method, is still rare. A study by News21 — a consortium of journalism schools — found 867 cases since 2000 in which someone had admitted guilt or been convicted of a voter-fraud offense. That was out of about 146 million registered voters."

The headline is super misleading, the point of the article is that selling votes is more common than outright impersonation or other forms of voting fraud.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by TremendousJudge on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:15PM (#16530713)
In Brazil, voting is compulsory. All those people are going to be voting anyway
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by onetimemanytime on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:26PM (#16530288)
That's the problem, it costs us a lot more than a few bucks. Billions and billions in spending or the US Senator will not vote the bill, or block it. F-35 is made in 45 states, only because all Senators and Congressmen want to buy votes (indirectly) http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/08/the-pentagons-399-billio...

In Brazil they do it the honest way.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by julioneander on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:53PM (#16531022)
We have that problem too, a lot of the corruption (I'd say most but I don't have data) is to gather money to be used by the political parties on their campaigns, propaganda, etc. Buying voters with literal cash works with people that are very poor and mostly alienated by the government.

As voting is compulsory in Brazil, a lot of people vote on the person that appeared on the television, or the person that had pamphlets being distributed at the red lights, so spending money on campaign works, indirectly buying votes.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by lbrito on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:19PM (#16530232)
Untrue. I've lived in Arizona for a year; have you heard of sheriff Joe Arpaio?

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/criminal-enterprise-a-cu...

One could say the US is just as corrupt, or more, than Brazil.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by tomc1985 on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @05:33PM (#16532713)
Characters like Arpaio are relatively uncommon in lower levels of the US gov. Corruption in Brazil is endemic. Pretty sure theres a large difference.

US may occasionally see third-world-BS, but in many places elsewhere in the world it is a fact of life.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by oh_sigh on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @05:36PM (#16532722)
One could, but it would be a statement completely divorced from reality.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by lbrito on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @04:14AM (#16535203)
How so? I can cite a single corruption episode that trumps maybe 99% of the Brazilian corruption scandals.

40 billion USD in cash sent to Afghanistan by plane just "vanished". https://www.cnbc.com/id/45031100

For the sake of comparison, the largest corruption scandal of Brazil to this date revolves around 42 billion BRL, which is about 13 billion USD. http://g1.globo.com/pr/parana/noticia/2015/11/pf-estima-que-...

Of course, one might argue "oh, but 40 bilion dollars in cash going missing is not corruption, it's just unfortunate/bad management/insert excuse here". "Corruption" is just one of those words of which the meaning changes depending on the object it refers to - it's always the other person's, never your own.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by muthdra on Wednesday March 14, 2018 @12:00PM (#16585697)
As the nephew of a former mayor of a small town of about 5k people in Brazil, I heard most people who get into office here can't possibly make back in salary all the money they spent buying votes before the election so the system itself usually removes the least corrupt candidates automatically.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by lopmotr on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @06:01PM (#16532870)
It's not quite the same. Lobbyists money pays for election campaigns to persuade citizens to vote for the lobbied politician. Traditional corruption involves doing something wrong/unfair/criminal for personal profit.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by dataker on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:31PM (#16530835)
I am also a vira-lata, and couldn't agree more.

Brazil, like other 3rd world countries, has an endemic cultural problem that hinders economic, social or technological progress.

You can "fight" corruption, but if it's part of your culture, it will always find a way back.

Congrats for the project, but you'd really need to rewrite 500 years of history to make Brazil a livable place.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by pedro_hab on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @02:39PM (#16531409)
Yeah, there is a saying that “Politics is downstream from culture”, the Brazilian culture does not help.

I don't have much hope.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by TremendousJudge on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @11:46AM (#16529963)
We're talking about a country that gave 1.35 million votes to a literal clown [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by neves on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:13PM (#16530179)
The literal clown is a decent deputy, even above average. He is as educated as the majority of the the population. He was present all the days that the Congress opened.

Your talk if full of prejudice.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by notahacker on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:00PM (#16530079)
It's not a uniquely Brazilian thing. Say hi to the former Mayor of Hartlepool, a monkey-suited football mascot elected on a manifesto promising free bananas

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1965569.stm

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by lbrito on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:20PM (#16530238)
The world's largest economic power and largest democracy, aka United States, elected a Western movie actor and a Reality TV star as presidents. The clown pales in comparison.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by dashoffset on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @02:12PM (#16531179)
Sorry, but there is no comparison. None of them were elected by saying: "Vote Reagan (or Trump). It can't get worse than this".
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by schoen on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @03:10PM (#16531653)
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by pathseeker on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @02:35PM (#16531366)
The people that voted for Trump didn't vote for him because he was a reality TV star.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by justaguyhere on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:47PM (#16530469)
lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes

Anyone else find over-the-top portrayal of patriotism annoying? Every time there is someone on the TV talking about "hard working and patriotic" (I don't even have a TV, only catch a glimpse at dunkin donuts and such) even when the topic on hand has nothing to do with hard work or patriotism. You are making a very valid point, but you literally had to start your comment saying you anticipate downvotes. It has become that bad.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by diego_moita on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:03PM (#16530610)
Well, frankly I believe it is a biological trait, an unavoidable natural instinct manipulated by propaganda.

Humans and their ancestors survived for several thousands of years in bands and tribes with between 10 and 50 individuals. Social cohesion and collaboration among them was essential for survival in confrontation with other animals or tribes fighting for the same resources (or females).

It is unavoidable that evolution shaped them to develop a desperate wish to "belong" to a group. Some call it tribalism. Nations just grab this tribalism and turn it into ideological justification for everything as in: "my country, right or wrong". Religions, political affiliations, corporations and sport associations use that trick too.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by ionforce on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:31PM (#16530323)
Pode explicar a tradução ou conexão para as palavras, vira e lita. Não significam "look" e "can"?

Não sou brasileiro.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by random42_ on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @03:09PM (#16531642)
Like the others already explained, "vira-latas" is a portuguese term for a stray dog and the idea that they need to flip trash cans to try to find food.

However, there is also an expression (whose origin was also explained) that means "Mongrel complex (Complexo de vira-Lata in Portuguese), which is an expression used to refer to a collective inferiority complex felt by some Brazilian people in comparison to Europe or the United States."[0]

Contrary to what was said here, the term coined by Nelson Rodrigues was not exclusive related to soccer. According to him: "By "Mongrel Complex" I mean the inferiority in which Brazilians put themselves, voluntarily, in comparison to the rest of the world. Brazilians are the reverse Narcissus, who spit in their own image. Here is the truth: we can't find personal or historical pretexts for self-esteem."[0]

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongrel_complex

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by triangleman on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @05:22PM (#16532636)
Interesting concept, the "reverse Narcissus", especially in this case. Because you see, in the same breath as they complain about their country, Brazilians will tell you that "God is a Brazilian".

Perhaps jingoism and mongrelism are two sides of the same coin. It would certainly explain how Trump got elected after a campaign based on complaining about his own country.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by random42_ on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @09:15PM (#16533840)
It's an interesting fact--anecdotally, of course--that as much as they complain about the country, they won't let anyone from outside to do the same thing.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by triangleman on Thursday March 08, 2018 @04:47AM (#16543392)
Excuse me that's "God is Brazilian"
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by diego_moita on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:53PM (#16530528)
Literally, it means "can turner".

Originally the expression came from football (soccer), as it happens in a lot of stuff within Brazilian culture.

In 1950 Brazil lost the finals for the Worldcup to Uruguai at Maracanã, the country biggest stadium. It was a national tragedy that left the country depressed (see "Maracanazo"). A very famous journalist from that age, Nelson Rodrigues, complained that the country was under a "stray dog syndrome", feeling unworthy when it was a lot better than that.

The important thing to notice is that Rodrigues was talking exclusively about football. He hated politics and deeply despised any form of nationalism. He actually didn't hold the national character in esteem.

It was much later on, on the 90's after his death, that the expression was hijacked and twisted to antagonize any Brazilian that criticizes Brazil in front of foreigners.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by gugagore on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:42PM (#16530419)
"virar" means "to turn (over)" or "to flip" "lata" means can---in this context "garbage can"

A stray dog turns garbage cans over in search of food.

I believe the term also refers to "mutt", a dog that is not purebred.

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by anderber on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:39PM (#16530387)
"Vira-Lata" literally translates to "Can-Turner". But the meaning is of a stray-dog.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by Apaec on Thursday March 08, 2018 @07:32AM (#16543935)
In Peru we have an equivalent phrase for "rouba mas faz", the "roba pero hace obra", also a popular justification that got a corrupt major elected for Lima, even when major media outlets showed proofs of corruption.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by ymgch on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @01:55AM (#16534744)
Another 'vira-lata' here. Thinking about braziL causes me nausea. Hope that 'country' be better but I really doubt.
[dead]
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by hugocbp on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:50PM (#16530992)
The difference here is that voting is compulsory and a much bigger part of the population can barely read, let alone judge more complex situations.

In the US, the "stupid" (as you call them) voters can stay at home if they are uninterested in the election. In the very least, this makes the voters be more involved.

Here, a lot of people only remember they need to vote when they try to buy beer on the Saturday before the election and they can't or when they turn the TV to watch their soap operas and see the mandatory political programs instead (and turn it off instead of watching).

Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by julioneander on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @02:01PM (#16531107)
Yes, and they will vote on the person that had the biggest budget on their campaign most of the time, because that's the person they will see on the television or outdoors. A lot of the corruption in Brazil is for stealing money to spend on political campaigns.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by pathseeker on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @02:38PM (#16531391)
How so? It seems your choice was a potentially corrupt (FBI email investigation announcement weeks before election) status-quo candidate or a populist outsider.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by lopmotr on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @06:08PM (#16532907)
Not the 2016 election, all of them. People only vote for the most well funded candidates, which typically means the most corrupted. There are a few exceptions of privately funded campaigns but they didn't win.
Re:Operation Serenata de Amor – An AI project to analyze pub... by oh_sigh on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @05:37PM (#16532727)
Yeah, I can't believe a majority of voters went for HRC.