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Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by zero_iq on Monday March 05, 2018 @09:23PM (#16526398)
I always think back to when I had a 120MB hard disk in the early 90s. It contained multiple editors, raytracers, games, music editors + music, images, paint programs, multiple programming languages and development kits, a multi-tasking operating system... and room to spare.

90s me would be absolutely floored by a text editor needing 438MB RAM.

Wait, what am I saying? 2018 me is pretty flabbergasted by it, but perhaps less surprised (and more cynical) than 90s me.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by SyneRyder on Monday March 05, 2018 @11:30PM (#16526872)
> I always think back to when I had a 120MB hard disk in the early 90s.... 90s me would be absolutely floored by a text editor needing 438MB RAM.

That isn't RAM, that's 438MB of drive space. Even the compressed zip download for Atom is bigger than would have fit on that entire hard drive (Atom 1.24 is 123MB zip download).

Though the RAM usage is pretty close, with no files loaded it was using 360MB RAM here.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by paulryanrogers on Monday March 05, 2018 @10:34PM (#16526674)
My rose-tinted glasses are cracked, so I don't want to go back. Software was a lot less capable back then. And APIs were often incredibly obtuse, bespoke, or both.
Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by com2kid on Monday March 05, 2018 @11:27PM (#16526862)
> Software was a lot less capable back then.

Some was.

WinAmp came out in 1997, 2.x was released in 1998. Real time streaming media.

Visual Studio 6 came out in 1998, had most of Intellisense up and running. The refactoring stuff wasn't there yet, but it could do remote debugging.

The Windows APIs were obtuse, but incredibly well documented.

It'd take a long time before a lot of things we take for granted got commoditized though. A streaming video player (+ server) was still an idea that a billion dollar company could be founded on.

It wouldn't have been hard to write a Slack competitor then. It wouldn't have had streaming video, and the client would have been native, but you could have gotten 80% of the functionality in there, and watched as people still complained it was just a fancy wrapper around IRC.

Web forums sucked though. Slashdot figured out the right idea, the entire conversation loaded at once, one big page, it took the rest of the web a lot time to catch up.

20 years later, I'm writing code, managing files, and have a chat app or two open. The monitor is higher res, and a lot larger. Hardware plug and play finally works, and printing is, on Windows at least, pretty much a solved problem. (Heck even Wi-Fi network printer works almost flawlessly!)

The APIs for writing code have gotten easier to use, but it seems like everyone's documentation is now 5, small, steps above garbage. Also APIs break more often nowadays.

My computer has dozens upon dozens of services running, most of which I don't know what they are. And individual websites take up more RAM than my entire OS used to.

That last part isn't even a joke. To load a few paragraphs of text, hundreds of megabytes of RAM.

It is cool that web browsers can natively play video. 99.9% of the time I don't want them to. I kinda just want that paragraph sitting in the <div id="content"> </div> tag.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by TeMPOraL on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @01:29AM (#16527262)
> WinAmp came out in 1997, 2.x was released in 1998. Real time streaming media.

Related to GP's "Software was a lot less capable back then." - somehow, WinAmp 2.x seems to be peak capability of music players; I don't recall any player made later that would be comparable in features for playing local music (with maybe the exception of Foobar2000).

My rose-tinted glasses have some scratches on them, but I still maintain that software of today didn't gain many meaningful features over the late 90s / early 2000s, and yet it grown tremendously in size and resource use.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by KozmoNau7 on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @07:40AM (#16528422)
WinAMP 2.x was nothing short of a miracle, it was a revolution in audio players. I wasn't a huge fan of the skin-based interface, and the playlist did some odd things once in a while, but on the whole, it was a damn good piece of software.

These days I'm using Foobar2000 and Quod Libet, and have looked at other "music library" type apps, but I'm considering just going with a simple player such as DeaDBeeF, and handle everything else through the file manager, since I've taken the time to properly plan the folder layout. I don't need ratings or playback statistics or all kinds of other things. I need a simple playlist to add music to, with basic playback controls. If I need to add tracks, I'll drag and drop from the file manager.

Basically, I don't need in-between applications between simple WinAMP 2.x style and the all-singing all-dancing streaming services such as Spotify, that do a much superior job with ratings and especially smart playlists.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by nurettin on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:01AM (#16526976)
Delphi came out more than 20 years ago and was future tech. Multi-tiered applications and having absolute control on responsive form layouts just wasn't appreciated enough.
Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by saurik on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @07:25AM (#16528371)
> It wouldn't have been hard to write a Slack competitor then. It wouldn't have had streaming video, and the client would have been native, but you could have gotten 80% of the functionality in there, and watched as people still complained it was just a fancy wrapper around IRC.

In 1998, I was using the Internet Explorer COM embeddable COM object to build an IRC client where all of the text rendering was handled by the HTML renderer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. (The reason why is the same as the reason I'd do the same thing today: because fancy text layout in a native app has always sucked and still sucks :/.)

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by piano on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @02:27PM (#16531289)
This comment is just pure nostalgia. And also a lot of apples to oranges.

Yes, you need more RAM to load a paragraph of text than an entire OS used to need, but what of it? How's that a meaningful comparison? WinAmp probably ate more RAM than entire OSes 25 years prior to WinAmp.

Also, while you might not be playing videos most of the time, those few times when you need it it's there for you just a click away and it's more efficient than ever before.

Yes, software is very bloated compared to software 25 years ago, but in spite of the efforts of crappy web-infused "desktop apps" like Atom, software today actually consumes less resources proportionally to the amount of computing resources available while delivering more, and also requires less power.

If WinAmp were to play your today's music files and if that were possible (which it isn't, unless you use antiquated audio formats), how much % of CPU would it use and how soon would it drain your laptops battery? My guess is it wouldn't fare very well.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by pasta on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @03:52AM (#16527707)
"Software was a lot less capable back then"

I think this is true-ish.

But when I compare Blender (330MB) and 3ds Max (6GB) I got the feeling some software is just better constructed.

Using a web browser as a text editor might not be the best solution...

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by ahtu123 on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @09:28AM (#16529027)
Following the current trajectory, the next cool text editor will ship with a full hidden Linux VM.
Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by whywhywhywhy on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @08:57AM (#16528854)
> some software is just better constructed

Exactly, TextMate and Sublime Text are both around 35 meg and both are close to feature parity for with Atom. It's only this more recent breed of software that is so absurdly bloated.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by mynewtb on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @06:28AM (#16528170)
3dsmax comes with lots of content though I guess?
Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by z3phyr on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @12:17AM (#16527034)
I think the bottleneck in the 90s was not software, but hardware. Most of the software was almost as capable and arguably more efficient than the software made _today_

The most efficient software today is still built with the lower level mindset of conserving memory and increasing runtime performance (Browsers, Compilers, Vector Graphics, Games etc)

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by ahtu123 on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @09:31AM (#16529048)
It's still important to not create ridiculous software. The majority of devices have batteries and sloppy programming will kill the uptime. That's the main reason I delete things. One editor I can run for 8 hours on a full battery and another one for 2h.
Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by KozmoNau7 on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @07:33AM (#16528393)
Sometimes the lack of capability was a good thing, meaning less distractions and more focus on the core functionality.

The simplicity of Win3.11 and Win95 was great, and that isn't just rose tinted glasses speaking.

Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by tluyben2 on Tuesday March 06, 2018 @08:03PM (#16533559)
Simplicity yes, but as someone who worked in uni with both 3.11 and Solaris (SparcStation 5), stability wise 3.11 was one of the most frustrating experiences for a user that I ever went through.
Re:Xray – An experimental next-generation Electron-based tex... by KozmoNau7 on Wednesday March 07, 2018 @06:14AM (#16535666)
Sure, and I would like to have the simplicity without the stability issues.