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Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by vidarh on Sunday February 25, 2018 @04:53AM (#16458122)
I do devops consulting, and typically I end up with more billable hours for AWS setups than bare metal or managed server setups. The idea that AWS takes less effort to manage is flawed. What instead tends to happen is that more of it gets diffused out through the dev team, who often doesn't know best practices, but often nobody tracks how much of their time gets eaten up by doing devops stuff when there's nobody explicitly allocated to do the devops tasks.

There can be advantages in that the developers more often can do the tasks passably well enough that you can spread tasks around, but if it's not accounted for a lot of the time people are fooling themselves when it comes to the costs.

When it comes to large companies like Spotify, the situation changes substantially in that they're virtually guaranteed to pay a fraction of published prices (at least that's my experience with much smaller companies that have bothered to negotiate).

Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by saas_co_de on Sunday February 25, 2018 @07:43AM (#16458647)
> nobody tracks how much of their time gets eaten up by doing devops stuff

This has been my experience working with companies that use cloud services as well.

Another big waste of time is on application optimization especially around database usage. Cloud services tend to provide very low IOPS storage (and then charge exorbitant amounts for semi-decent performance) which forces spending a lot of wasted time on optimization which would never be an issue on dedicated hardware.

Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by vidarh on Sunday February 25, 2018 @02:31PM (#16460688)
> This has been my experience working with companies that use cloud services as well.

It's generally the case across large parts of IT. I confused the heck out of the first manager I started sending itemized weekly reports of the cost of each functional area and feature requests (based on average salary per job description), as he'd never seen it before. But it very quickly changed a lot of behaviors when they realized the value of the resources spent on various features.

Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by boundlessdreamz on Sunday February 25, 2018 @01:34PM (#16460369)
Only amazon though. This is something that infuriates me about RDS.On google cloud IOPS performance is not based on instance size.
Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by marcinzm on Sunday February 25, 2018 @11:18AM (#16459584)
>There can be advantages in that the developers more often can do the tasks passably well enough that you can spread tasks around, but if it's not accounted for a lot of the time people are fooling themselves when it comes to the costs.

It is cheaper than hiring a full DevOps team which is a better apples to apples comparison. By spreading the load across the dev team I can automatically get a high bus factor and 24/7 hour on-call rotation. If the load cannot be spread across the team but requires specialized DevOps engineers then I lose both those very important points. Obviously once your company is large enough it's different but for small teams/companies it is an important factor.

Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by vidarh on Sunday February 25, 2018 @02:22PM (#16460643)
> It is cheaper than hiring a full DevOps team which is a better apples to apples comparison.

My experience is that it often is more expensive when you actually account for lost development time.

> By spreading the load across the dev team I can automatically get a high bus factor and 24/7 hour on-call rotation.

... and my experience of this is that I'll never do it, ever, because of how it affects retention.

> Obviously once your company is large enough it's different but for small teams/companies it is an important factor.

Most of my clients have been small to medium sized, and I see the cost tip in teams with as few as 3-4 people at times.

Re:Dropbox saved almost $75M over two years by moving out of... by sedachv on Sunday February 25, 2018 @02:35PM (#16460709)
> By spreading the load across the dev team I can automatically get a high bus factor and 24/7 hour on-call rotation.

This assertion supports what vidarh wrote. What you wrote has nothing to do with DevOps or software or engineering - what you are really saying is that you are saving money by coercing your developers into working two jobs at the same time. I have been in this position as a developer at a company where we had on-call rotations. This is a false economy and a quick way to increase stress, alienate employees, and increase turnover. Infrastructure tasks get neglected and are performed poorly because those tasks are now just necessary distractions to the main workload of feature development, to be gotten over with as quickly as possible. A lot of things get overlooked because no one "owns" areas like backups and disaster recovery.