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Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by VectorLock on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:34PM (#16442640)
Why shouldn't the world focus on cities? If you're choosing to live in an area where you're geographically separated from other people can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together?
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by Barrin92 on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:47PM (#16442728)
>choosing to live in an area where you're geographically separated from other people

people aren't created out of a vacuum and randomly choose a place to live. What if your 70 year old mother is simply too frail to move to a city? What if you desperately need the monthly paycheck and cannot just go months without pay looking for a job because you care for your child? What if you simply do not want your community to rot away because every abled bodied person runs off to the city?

People aren't just amoeba in a lab experiment.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by gilbetron on Thursday February 22, 2018 @08:27PM (#16443394)
Honest question: why should people pay for your lifestyle just because you choose it? I live in a small city, but if it stopped being capable of supporting itself and suburbs (somehow) were more sustainable, I would move to them. Sitting in a low per-capita situation is economically infeasible for many, so they should either live with what they have or adapt. I would love to sit around and read fiction for a living, but I can't survive in the lifestyle I enjoy, so I don't.

"too frail" to move doesn't make sense - not having enough money does make sense. Look for a job while you have your current one - it is far easier and more successful that way anyway. Country living with a decent lifestyle is for those that have figured out a way to afford it, not for anyone that feels like it.

There are options: just because it isn't what you dream of doing doesn't mean it isn't an option.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by kelnos on Friday February 23, 2018 @05:14AM (#16445405)
You seem to vastly overestimate the choices people have, especially those who live in rural areas where there are more people than jobs, and many people live paycheck to paycheck. You mention "not having enough money" -- yes, that's exactly it, and many (most?) of the people in that situation don't have a way out of it. You can't get a better paying job where you live if there isn't one, or at least isn't one you're qualified for. You can't keep your job at home and travel to a city to interview for a better job if you don't have the money for transportation, or can't get (or afford) the time off to interview.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by gilbetron on Friday February 23, 2018 @10:22AM (#16446811)
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't traps. I strongly believe we should have some economic mechanism to help people relocate to where the jobs are - a major reason our country is in the current situation is due to people not moving like we thought they would. Part of that is being stuck, and we need to address that (more). But another part of that is the belief that the world should adapt to you. It's funny, because many people making fun of being entitled, are actually incredibly entitled in believing that jobs should come to them.

There was an interesting thread on reddit about coal towns in (I think) Virginia, and the mindset of people there and the situation they were in. It was stated that there was a large pool of money in the state available to people for retraining (coal to trucking or solar development, etc) and something like less than 25% of the money was even used.

A woman I know got a simple laser cutter and designed a site around doing craft projects with it. In under a year she has thousands of followers and is making thousands a month doing it. I mean, hell, just get you and your friends together and say, "ok, we need to get out of here, lets all live together as cheaply as possible, until we have enough money, then rent some place in a better location, and live there, pooling resources, until we all get better jobs."

There are options, now more than ever with the Internet existing and the mind numbing amount of resources it brings.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by thomastjeffery on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:48PM (#16442730)
Why should the world focus on cities?

Those who are born and raised in rural areas can't just uproot their lives the moment they turn 18 and start to afford, or even enjoy city life.

Because the commute is closer? It's still at least as slow in many places, because of traffic problems generated by tighter clusters of people.

The idea that cities are the most optimal is an idea, not a proven fact. Your experience may support the idea, but mine certainly does not.

The point here is that there are more people living in cities than in rural areas, simply because that has been true for a few generations, and people don't tend to change lifestyles.

People who grow up with one lifestyle realize the advantages it provides, and grow up with a bias toward that lifestyle. That bias coupled with the population difference is the real reason the majority of people don't care about rural areas. Personally, I think we should fight that bias.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by bllguo on Thursday February 22, 2018 @07:35PM (#16443042)
because it's more efficient? The services will help more people because of population density. I mean, the math is obvious. I'm not sure what the argument is. Nobody is saying city folk are more important. There are simply more of them.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by hermitdev on Thursday February 22, 2018 @08:52PM (#16443548)
Yet, tight population densities also have detrimental environmental effects, such as heat islands, higher levels of noxious gasses, modification or pollution of natural drainage, losses of open green spaces just to name a few.

Rural areas typically don't modify the local drainage (you're not likely connected to a sewer, you have a septic system). They don't become heat islands are there's relatively little pave or concreted. The noxious gasses aren't usually a problem due to lower traffic, usage and density, except in some mountain valleys where you get temperature inversions over winter that trap some of that.

The problems are technological/economical. Getting power is a pain in the ass, yet we've mostly solved that, likewise with traditional phone land-lines. Internet access is abysmal. I get better internet connectivity on my cell phone than my parents can get in their house because local providers won't run cable/fiber because it's too expensive for too few subscribers, but the federal government mandated access to both power & phone and we have those.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by eric_b on Thursday February 22, 2018 @08:55PM (#16443564)
I've lived in cities - they typically failed to provide better services than lower density suburbs, despite having a bigger tax base and "efficiencies". There are many reasons for this, but cities do not become magically more efficient or well run with more people. Sadly, the opposite is usually true.

I think you've bought a bill of goods that a certain group of people are selling, without actually having lived it.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by aianus on Friday February 23, 2018 @01:06AM (#16444567)
> I've lived in cities - they typically failed to provide better services than lower density suburbs

I think this is an almost uniquely American phenomenon. In most places in the world, the suburbs are where you grudgingly live when you can't afford housing in the city.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by erikb on Wednesday February 28, 2018 @12:39PM (#16484865)
I'd also say that wealthier people want to live in suburbs, because there they can have a whole house for themselves while also maintaining some closeness to the city center. Only poor people or not-yet-settled foreigners really live inside the city even though their costs might even be higher than paying off a house in the suburbs. And now if you're a service provider where would you focus your services? On the monoculture with money in the suburbs or on the poor and very differentiated city dwellers? The other way around the city centers are also better for startups because you haven't got the infrastructure to provide for a large, high-demand customer base yet, and prefer a niche. Multicultural hot pots are better sources of small niches with low requirements.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by bllguo on Friday February 23, 2018 @01:39PM (#16448292)
I live in a city as well. I thought we were comparing cities to rural areas, not suburbs? My belief would be that suburbs are not good for society - they're land inefficient and get more resources than they should because more affluent people live in them.

Anyway I was just offering a basic justification for why society would focus on improving lives in cities as opposed to rural areas.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by dsfyu404ed on Thursday February 22, 2018 @08:45PM (#16443495)
>The services will help more people because of population density.

You're assuming a centralized distribution model and that the overhead of centralization is more than made up for with economics of scale.

edit: is that not the implied assumption?

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by bllguo on Friday February 23, 2018 @01:35PM (#16448264)
Well I didn't downvote you if that's the implication :)

Sure, I suppose it is.. do you mean to suggest that the assumption is false?

[dead]
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by rpvnwnkl on Thursday February 22, 2018 @11:07PM (#16444140)
Are you from Mexico?
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by vanilla_nut on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:43PM (#16442691)
Unfortunately, the children of people who choose to live outside of cities don't have a choice in where their parents live.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by thousandautumns on Friday February 23, 2018 @10:22AM (#16446816)
You are vastly overestimating the amount of control these people have over where they live.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by hueving on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:42PM (#16442684)
>can you really complain that you're not receiving benefits from systems that are more optimal when people are clustered together

Yes. Society should always be doing more than what is cost optimal.

Cities are only being focused on right now naturally because that's where the rich people are. It wasn't that long ago that inner cities were quite poor and there were people making excuses like you for not investing in them.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by tbihl on Thursday February 22, 2018 @07:33PM (#16443027)
Well, we can all be proud that state governments are both handing out disproportionately large sums of money to rural areas and doing so in ways that crushes any notion of cost optimal. This is done, of course, through infrastructure building, in which rural mucipalities beggar themselves to get state matching for road construction they cant afford to spur on unproductive growth that will turn around to bite them with maintenance costs. Matching makes it sound much better than is the case, since in some cases the state's share of the bill exceeds 90%.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by hermitdev on Thursday February 22, 2018 @08:53PM (#16443554)
I think you need some citations before your claims can be taken seriously.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by tbihl on Thursday February 22, 2018 @09:53PM (#16443804)
Examples that prove insightful to you are a personal matter. Unless you believe it important that spending be apportioned by lane-mile or road inventory (which I'd argue is rife with moral hazard), it is likely that your state effects net infrastructure transfers from urban to rural, as is the case in mine.

If it's the 90% figure you doubt, I encourage you to look into some road projects. In Virginia, we have a particularly problematic system where the local contribution is pegged at 2% (see page 52)(though it can vary by project.) You are welcome to read the VA urban (misnomer) maintenance code, though I encourage you to find the one applicable to you, so you can be familiar with the perverse incentives provided in your own area. [http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/local_assistan...]

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by KamBha on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:59PM (#16442796)
While I agree that the more investment is probably required in rural areas, I think your assertion that the reason why rural areas are being under funded is incorrect.

Reality is that more people now live in urban areas[1]. Democracy being what it is, most funding goes to the majority - which are in the city. Add to that that setting up this infrastructure is often not cost effective for a private business (due to a lack of customers) and that most rural communities prefer less government intervention (ie less taxes), we have a situation where there is little impetus to invest in rural communities by private companies and governments (at least local) don't have funding to pay for service.

[1] https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2016/comm/acs-...

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by hueving on Friday February 23, 2018 @11:30AM (#16447322)
>Democracy being what it is, most funding goes to the majority - which are in the city.

Democracy has to be more than two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

It's true that the majority can just vote to line their own pockets and leave the minority in squalor, but that leaves a pretty shitty country leftover. Many of these rural areas look like third-world countries and that's not something us urbanites should be proud of.

Scholarship money disproportionately goes to lower income students, but that doesn't mean we should stop giving them scholarship money.

Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by ghaff on Thursday February 22, 2018 @07:21PM (#16442946)
Note however that the census definition of "urban" is very broad. I live in a 7,000 population town and between myself and a few neighbors, we're on about 100 acres--not counting adjacent conservation land. We're urban according to the census.
Re:Who's Missing from America's Colleges? Rural High School ... by IntronExon on Thursday February 22, 2018 @06:48PM (#16442731)
It’s where a large majority of all people are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_United_S...