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Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by kqr on Monday February 19, 2018 @03:21PM (#16415410)
> But are language enthusiasts really better hires in general? I've known many of them who loved the theory and toying with a language but were not any better at producing actual value than the average joe.

I think they may be safer hires, anyway. They will be able to program themselves out of a wet cardboard box, which is more than you can say about the average Joe who may just be good at bluffing the interview.

Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by crdoconnor on Monday February 19, 2018 @04:06PM (#16415756)
Provided you dangle enough money and have a good interview process you can easily cull those people who can't code themselves out of a wet paper bag.

The thing that would worry me about niche languages is the amount of wheel reinvention you'd have to do. Not sure the cost/benefit calculation starts to look so great any more when you realize that your enthused elm developers will have to build a whole lot of stuff that you can just import in other languages.

Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by rebeccaskinner on Monday February 19, 2018 @09:47PM (#16417482)
Most niche languages have an FFI escape hatch for when you really need a library and don't want to re-invent a wheel. Elm, Purescript, Bucklescript, and ghcjs can all interoperate with javascript; Scala and Clojure work with most (all?) native java libraries; F# has access to most (all?) .NET libraries. Haskell, Idris, ATS, Erlang, and SBCL Common Lisp all allow you to access native system libraries.

FFIs can have warts, but in the general case library support isn't the obstacle people make it out to be.

Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by crdoconnor on Tuesday February 20, 2018 @09:15AM (#16420405)
I don't agree. I find that the impedance mismatch of an FFI is an incredibly fertile breeding ground for nasty and obscure bugs and deployment problems.
Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by dragonwriter on Monday February 19, 2018 @10:20PM (#16417601)
> Provided you dangle enough money and have a good interview process you can easily cull those people who can't code themselves out of a wet paper bag

Interviewing costs money—good tech interviewing particularly so. The less of the people you have applying to start with, the more money you save on culling then by way of tech interviews.

Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by jimbokun on Monday February 19, 2018 @05:28PM (#16416272)
Not sure how Elm interacts with Javascript libraries, but JVM languages can generally use any existing Java libraries. So a language built on a popular run time (JVM, .Net VM, guess there's exactly two), can still have excellent library support.
Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by krotton on Monday February 19, 2018 @07:25PM (#16416914)
...or Node.js nowadays, so three, I guess.

Elm nicely abstracts over JS interoperability with a mechanism called ports: https://guide.elm-lang.org/interop/javascript.html

Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by droidist2 on Tuesday February 20, 2018 @12:34AM (#16418085)
True, I'd much rather someone who spends their time learning Elm than Cracking The Code Interview.
Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by Can_Not on Tuesday February 20, 2018 @01:51PM (#16422857)
Aren't you just as likely to get people who excel at hyping and hello-worlding new languages but can't actually make applications? Or people who just read the python paradox (with python scribbled out and Elm written over it) who think they can look like a great developer who understands the value of Elm but really don't?
Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by kqr on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @04:02AM (#16428008)
You'll get those, yes. I know because I was one of them... But I think you unerestimate how bad the average interviewee can be.

Someone who hello worlds new languages may not know the syntax or idioms to write fizzbuzz in any specific language, but they will be able to characterise the rough shape of the problem, and not just sit in silence...

Re:Elm changed my mind about unpopular languages by kazinator on Wednesday February 21, 2018 @02:57PM (#16432429)
> bluffing the interview

"bluffer overflow vulnerability". :)