Do you think i am entirely wrong, and suffering is worse than death?
Do you think it is better to die, instead of enduring suffering and then getting to live some more?
Yes. Read reports of torture victims. They frequently request death over continued pain.
- torture causes permanent physical damage
- torture causes mental trauma
- the torture victim does not know when the torture will stop
In some cases, certainly.
I'd also say that it being voluntary, and knowing that there is an end (and can be brought to an end by you), makes for a very different experience.
There's many cultures that have coming of age rituals that would be considered torture in the western world. People do those things because they're "part of a larger package" so to speak.
THAIPUSAM, MALAYSIA
In a demonstration of devotion and offer of penance to the Hindu God Lord Murugan, devotees perform incredible (and sometimes gruesome!) feats. They pierce their body and face with skewers, drag chariots with hooks attached to their skin and carry uncomfortable metal frames called ‘kavadis’ through the streets and up the 272 steps to the shrine at the top of the cave. During the festival some participants enter trance-like states when their soul is believed to be cleansed of sins.
PHUKET VEGETARIAN FESTIVAL, THAILAND
By the name of this festival you may assume it to be a gentle affair where new-age vegetarian hippies share tofu recipes over yoga mats in Thailand. However, the Phuket Vegetarian festival is one of the craziest, most spectacular events in South East Asia. You’ll witness incredible acts of self-torture such as walking on hot coals, climbing bladed ladders and the piercing of cheeks with swords, shards of glass – even beach umbrellas.
Filipino fanatics re-enact crucifixion for Good Friday
In a bloody display of religious devotion Roman Catholic fanatics in the Philippines have had themselves nailed to the cross as the Christian world marks the day Jesus was crucified.
Read the link for quotes from people talking about the repeated nerve pain, blood, etc.:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-06/philippino-fanatics-cr...
I certainly wouldn't do it for "a game." I don't think I would do it for any amount of money or other benefit, either. What you're proposing is (seemingly) no benefit beyond the experience of being tortured--which coincidentally you are going you erase when you delete the mental illness.
Anyway, you're wrong, nobody would sign up for that. People who are afraid of roller coasters don't ride them. Everyone's afraid of torture.
Even if it was to unlock a new level in a game, or to remove a tooth? :)
More seriously though seems like i didn't manage to express what i wanted to say in my comment.
My point was that people are afraid of torture, and many other things (like roller coasters) because there's a large chance to die in the end. And without that chance the whole thing is just some neurons being active, and is not a big deal.
Your point about needing to erase all memory of the experience to not get mental illness is very interesting. I'd expect the brain to be more stable, but we don't know enough about the brain to say for sure.
I actually didn't express that very well. I kind of meant that if you were to erase the mental illness, you've effectively erased the whole experience. Horrible torture isn't something you just leave behind you the day after. The influence it has is almost necessarily mental illness in some form or fashion.
If anyone did go through horrible torture voluntarily, I would expect they would do it to know what it was like. And mental illness is part of what it's like.
There are people afraid of bugs, dogs, cats, birds, balls etc... There are also people who experience anxiety for unknown reasons due to anxiety disorder. Moreover, there is no, quoting you, "large chance to die in the end" in roller coasters. I don't think any part of your argument makes sense, sorry.
The point of tooth removal in dentistry is to end pain, not to cause it.
Accidentally catching my hand on a table saw was bad enough, thank you very much. I knew very well I wouldn't die or suffer permanent damage and it still sucked like hell.
No, your guess is absurd. Of course they wouldn't.
It's always been possible to quite reliably cause extreme pain with little long-term consequence. The pain remains real, and people remain motivated to avoid that pain.
This isn't even a thought experiment - you're just describing torture!
> killing painlessly doesn't let one off the hook, since it is still killing
If we're talking about human beings: obviously. No-one in their right mind would disagree with that. Most people treat non-human animals as categorically different.
> And if one thinks killing is ok, then some amount of pain should be ok too.
Non-sequitur.
Is that self evident though? It seems like the difference between pleasure and pain is that pain is a signal that is interpreted as "get out of here, or you may die". And brain is pretty flexible when it comes to reinterpretting the meaning of signals. E.g. with food taste, some tastes that induce revulsion on first try, become peculiar and interesting after a while.
But others just seemed pointless. For example, in the novels, the Envoys are not dissidents, but rather enforcers for the Protectorate. Quell was a dissident, and Takeshi did quote her frequently, but she died centuries before he was born. The Quell character in the video is actually Virginia Vidura, who was his trainer in the Envoys. And Reilieen was not his sister.
Also, the virtual torture sequence in the novel is far more extreme than depicted in the video. I doubt that it could be shown, even on Netflix.
If we consider an extreme case of someone going through a horrible torture, but the next day waking up as healthy as before, and without some kind of mental illness, and without losing significant amount of his time, or opportunity, would it be any different than a game? Would most people try such a game, where they play for someone getting executed in middle ages?
My guess is they would, so fear of the pain is misplaced, and death is the horrible part. And therefore killing painlessly doesn't let one off the hook, since it is still killing. (And if one thinks killing is ok, then some amount of pain should be ok too.)