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Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @01:16PM (#16342504)
According to the Techmeme headline Uber pledges not to use Waymo trade secrets: "Uber settles Waymo lawsuit, pledges not to use Waymo's trade secrets; Waymo will receive 0.34% stake in Uber worth about $245M"

So how is this not a win for Waymo?

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by fullshark on Friday February 09, 2018 @01:58PM (#16342914)
The real win for Waymo is what happened to Levandowski and Kalanick after they filed the complaint.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by whack on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:55PM (#16344181)
Is it really? I would think Waymo's primary goal is making money for their shareholders, not pursuing personal vendettas.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by vkou on Friday February 09, 2018 @05:08PM (#16344277)
Keeping employees from straying too close to the line of 'sharing trade secrets with their next employer' makes money for shareholders. There's a chilling effect.

The next Levandowski will think twice before following in this one's footsteps - even if their actions would be 100% legal. The next Kalanick will think twice before hiring him.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by tytso on Saturday February 10, 2018 @12:42PM (#16348423)
Levandowski can't be all that smart if he thought he could download 14,000 documents onto his work laptop, without Google noticing. I mean, hello? Any sane I/T security protection architecture would assume that despite the best security you can put on employee's laptops and mobile devices, a sufficiently determined criminal or state actor is going to be able to get onto the laptop.

So having extensive monitoring on work machines is not because you don't trust your employees --- but because you don't trust that the employee's laptop / mobile device is always going to be under the control of the employee. And if it does get compromised, you want to be able to state with confidence how much data might have gotten compromised, or how much access the criminal or state sponsored attacker might have been able to gain access to.

The fact that it can also be used to find incriminating evidence for back-stabbing employees who are intent on screwing over their employer is just a bonus.

And if he wasn't smart enouh to realize this, I wonder how much Waymo lost and how much Uber gained when they lured him away from Waymo. :-)

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by dzhiurgis on Sunday February 11, 2018 @06:38AM (#16352276)
AFAIK the theft was only noticed after supplier noticed that Otto was ordering similar parts as Waymo did, hence notified them.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by wutbrodo on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:58PM (#16344205)
I would imagine that weakening a competitor in their space would be decently correlated with expected return for shareholders. Not sure where you got the idea that the only benefit would be "personal".
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by whack on Friday February 09, 2018 @05:03PM (#16344237)
Sure, but I have a hard time imagining that "what happened to Levandowski and Kalanick", as individuals, is going to weaken Uber in the marketplace. If anything, going from Kalanick to Khosrowshahi might have actually helped Uber in the long run.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by kelnos on Friday February 09, 2018 @05:43PM (#16344495)
Yeah, I agree with this. Both Levandowski and Kalanick seem to be incredibly toxic people; removing or lessening their influence on Uber, and replacing them with decent people, would only seem to strengthen Uber's position and reputation going forward.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by chrononaut on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:14PM (#16344647)
Which interestingly circles back to another comment that was made:

> a settlement that requires Uber to do very well to have any value.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by toomuchtodo on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:15PM (#16343487)
Uber lost two key employees and paid Waymo for the trouble.

Waymo/Google counsel earned their annual bonus.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by tannhauser23 on Friday February 09, 2018 @02:21PM (#16343071)
It's meaningless if Uber didn't in fact possess any Waymo trade secrets. You're not allowed to use other people's trade secrets anyway.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @02:26PM (#16343110)
Which implies that Uber needs to start off it's plans to build driverless cars from zero or partner, which is precisely what the lawsuit was about. It's also what Otto's acquisition price was predicated on - that it had built IP from zero for driverless cars. The settlement is an indication that it did not do that, which means they'll likely have to scrap a large piece of it's incremental work.

> You're not allowed to use other people's trade secrets anyway.

Being allowed to do something and actually doing something are two very different things.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by Splines on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:23PM (#16343935)
> Which implies that Uber needs to start off it's plans to build driverless cars from zero

What does this mean in a practical sense? rm -rf /car? Can the Uber engineers who worked on this continue to do so, or are they "tainted"?

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by tmh79 on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:05PM (#16344609)
> The settlement is an indication that it did not do that, which means they'll likely have to scrap a large piece of it's incremental work.

That isn't true. Uber didn't use any trade secrets from waymo, thats why waymo settled. The point of the oversite is to continue to show that uber isn't using their trade secrets. There is no part of the uber tech stack that needs to be retired as an outcome of this case.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by dragonwriter on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:15PM (#16344656)
> Uber didn't use any trade secrets from waymo, thats why waymo settled.

Waymo has plenty of motivation to settle if they could get adequate behavioral commitments in the settlement, even if they thought Uber had and had used Waymo trade secrets. We don't know here details of the behavioral commitments around preventing use of Waymo technology, but their existence was in the public release.

Given that, if Waymo wins the self-driving race, Uber is a likely customer and is a company Alphabet already owns a nice chunk of through GV, there is plenty of incentive to minimize cost to Uber as well as Waymo while mitigating any risk of Uber using Waymo tech. Dragging out the court process isn't in anyone's interest, whether or not Uber stole and used Waymo technology.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:32PM (#16344755)
> To be clear, while we do not believe that any trade secrets made their way from Waymo to Uber, nor do we believe that Uber has used any of Waymo’s proprietary information in its self-driving technology, we are taking steps with Waymo to ensure our Lidar and software represents just our good work. [0]

> Uber didn't use any trade secrets from waymo, thats why waymo settled.

This is still unclear.

> There is no part of the uber tech stack that needs to be retired as an outcome of this case.

Honestly, no one knows for sure, everything here (including my statements) is pure conjecture. Here's the reality though - Uber did not explicitly say "we absolutely 100% did not steal trade secrets". Outside the court of law, that tells me they are going to lose something of value...to what extent, I guess only Uber knows.

[0] https://www.uber.com/newsroom/uber-waymo-settlement/

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by jedberg on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:41PM (#16344076)
> The settlement is an indication that it did not do that,

Not really. The settlement is an indication that someone did an ROI calculation and decided that .043% of Uber is cheaper than the cost of seeing the trial to conclusion with the possibility of losing.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:40PM (#16344796)
Based on what we all read in the news today, winning the autonomous race against a competitor is a double digit billion dollar opportunity. IMHO, the 0.043% is nothing more than a signal, rather than an absolute ROI. That number is a rounding error on a Alphabet balance sheet. If this was Oracle/SAP/Microsoft it would be a different story, where punitive damages are part of it's licensing model due to lack of growth from existing products.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by xyzzy_plugh on Friday February 09, 2018 @02:57PM (#16343348)
What? Nothing is implied. No one is starting over. Money changes hands and everyone saves face.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:17PM (#16343895)
> pledges not to use Waymo's trade secrets

If this statement is indeed true and Uber isn't totally brazen, then yes it would imply that Uber is going to have to seriously clamp down on how it uses the data/IP they got from Otto (which clearly they got from Google/Waymo). Not a lawyer, but that's how I read it.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by tmh79 on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:07PM (#16344617)
They didn't get any IP from waymo, that is why waymo settled. There is no additional clamping down, they just need to continue to show alphabet that they're not doing anything fishy.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @06:42PM (#16344807)
See my point above. You don't settle if your claim is 100% baseless, so it's very unlikely that no trade secrets were obtained.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by rhizome on Friday February 09, 2018 @02:47PM (#16343282)
You're not allowed to use other people's trade secrets anyway

Sure you are, you're just not allowed to reveal them. That is, once they're revealed [to outsiders], they can be used by anybody. The only cause of action that I know of is to go after the revealer (as we have here), nobody who learns (and/or uses) anything from a disclosure of trade secrets has anything to worry about.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by rhino369 on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:11PM (#16343461)
That's not really true. If learn a trade secret you cannot use it. If it became public knowledge through no fault of your own, it's no longer a trade secret.

Put if you steal the recipe to Coke and email it to Pepsi, they can't use it, even if use doesn't disclose it.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by rhizome on Friday February 09, 2018 @04:29PM (#16343977)
The law in California is complicated, and appears to hold that a company is liable if they "knew or should have known" the information they were using was misappropriated. This came up a bunch back in the SCOX v. IBM days.
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by dsfyu404ed on Friday February 09, 2018 @03:53PM (#16343738)
>If learn a trade secret you cannot use it.

It depends on how you learn the a trade secret.

Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by thinkmassive on Friday February 09, 2018 @05:54PM (#16344555)
Does that mean Uber is valued at $72 billion?
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by dogecoinbase on Friday February 09, 2018 @01:21PM (#16342554)
Uber has a significant documented history of flouting both the law and agreements they've made?
Re:Uber and Waymo Reach Settlement by mbesto on Friday February 09, 2018 @01:33PM (#16342669)
1. DK has clearly been telegraphing that they are no longer accepting practices of flouting agreements, no?

2. Isn't that exactly what this settlement is intending to do? It sets the legal precedence for "don't skirt this one, we're serious about it".