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Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by rtb on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:26AM (#16307873)
Does anyone know why the fat doesn't get broken down by bacteria; why doesn't it just rot away?
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by matthewmacleod on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:36AM (#16307911)
I understand that there are two things: first, it's not just fat – it's fat plus nappies plus wipes plus sanitary goods. Second, the combination of the fat with metallic salts in the water causes saponification, so you end up with some kind of calcium-magnesium soap mixed in with it.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by MertsA on Monday February 05, 2018 @11:45AM (#16309953)
"Ninety three per cent of its complex structure was said to consist of the element “wet wipe”."

It's made of something meant to be stored for very long periods in water without losing cohesion.

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by reledi on Monday February 05, 2018 @09:09AM (#16308780)
Don't forget condoms!
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by madaxe_again on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:08AM (#16308283)
Fat doesn't decompose very readily - which is why it's commonly used to seal jars of meat products like terrine and pâté.

In anaerobic conditions, you get hydrolysis of fat, in which the water content is removed and the fats end up saturated and indigestible further by anaerobic processes. Cf. Corpse Wax.

In aerobic conditions, they'll be broken down into aldehydes and ketones.

I'm guessing that the interior of a monstrous fatberg is rather anaerobic, so you just end up with a great big blob of saturated fatty acids.

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by bane on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:32AM (#16308612)
It's actually been used as a way to preserve food in the past, often as a kind of watertight plug or seal to keep food from going bad.

Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKzWQOVET4

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by gambiting on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:02AM (#16308482)
Fat is such a fantastic store of energy I am really surprised nothing evolved to eat it in this form.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by deadbunny on Monday February 05, 2018 @09:35AM (#16308947)
I see you've never been to Scotland.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by Graham24 on Monday February 05, 2018 @11:29AM (#16309832)
ouch!
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by merpnderp on Monday February 05, 2018 @11:09AM (#16309654)
Given the recent Lancet study on the healthfulness of high fat diets, maybe these could be recycled for food.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by MertsA on Monday February 05, 2018 @11:49AM (#16309985)
The Chinese have quite the problem with exactly that. Eating something pulled out of a sewer tends to have health effects and gutter oil is sometimes made from grease from a sewer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by KozmoNau7 on Monday February 05, 2018 @01:17PM (#16310705)
The depths of human depravity know no bounds.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by Reason077 on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:36AM (#16307918)
London's water supply is pretty heavily chlorinated. Wouldn't that surpress bacterial activity?
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by dx034 on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:09AM (#16308285)
I doubt that. To me, London tap water never tasts like chlorine, I suspect it's chlorinated much less than most tap water in the US.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by brusch64 on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:02AM (#16308484)
Coming from Central Europe it tastes like chlorine for me. Not as extrem as US water - but absolutely noticeable.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by narag on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:29AM (#16308367)
I thought that you use fluorine in the USA instead of chlorine.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by CapitalistCartr on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:39AM (#16308403)
Fluorine is an additive to prevent teeth decay; chlorine or chloramine is to prevent disease in the water. Both are routinely added in the US.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by joering2 on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:02AM (#16308480)
Exactly. Worth adding if you live in USA and have a chance to visit your local water treatment plantation (they always welcome visitors), go see their state-of-the-art system for treating water. What I didn't know is that there is very complicated system that forbids flushing water back into the central system to poison it. The idea is that a terrorist could plug themselves into pipe and inject poison that will travel back to the treatment plant and obviously from there go to each sink, sort of like an online virus :) very cool stuff.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by Spooky23 on Monday February 05, 2018 @09:11AM (#16308797)
That’s probably just the justification for the grant used to get federal money for the system.

The reality is that if you have people equipped to poison the water supply, they will be able to. Most water systems have multiple interconnects with neighboring systems to allow exchange of treated water. Security is typically nonexistent.

The good news is that that type of attack isn’t particularly useful as a terrorist event and is likely low risk.

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by kbutler on Monday February 05, 2018 @10:34AM (#16309365)
Going to call "urban legend" on the terrorist angle.

Texas is putting it back into the municipal system.

https://www.texastribune.org/2012/06/11/texas-gets-creative-...

Basically, water treatment plants have to make human-safe water, but then they dump it into rivers or the aquifer, where it mixes with other water and is pulled out again downstream for purification. The logic is that we may as well skip the "mix it with untreated water" stage.

Google "toilet to tap" for more examples.

Bill Gates drank some:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/01/10/3761823...

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by gambiting on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:03AM (#16308487)
Is it really because of terrorists? Or because it's simply common sense?
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by Shivetya on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:38AM (#16307928)
Going also to say that its likely many of the sanitary items are heavy in medical agents too
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by mseebach on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:12AM (#16308078)
Is it really though? I've lived three places in London and made sourdoughs with tap water in all with no trouble. If it can't kill nacent yeast cultures, I wouldn't expect it to have many chances against sewer bacteria.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by folknor on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:44AM (#16308202)
TLDR: It's not as simple as "apply bleach - things die."

Yeast and bacteria are not the same thing. Practically, bleach doesn't kill yeast - if you try to kill fungus in your shower or on a wall with bleach, what that does is make it white. Which to us is a strong indication that it's dead, but it probably isn't.

To clean fungus from your shower, for example, you need to mix vinegar and fresh bleach with cold water (of which the fumes can actually kill you as well) and use the solution properly, or use an industrial cleaning agent.

Of course, someone who bleaches their shower will probably also wash it after (you should wash it _first_ before applying bleach), which might simply _physically remove_ most of the fungus from the surface. But depending on the solution you use, the fungus won't actually die.

Note that the above is mostly true in household use of bleach, and not in correct use. Bleach _does_ kill most fungus if used correctly, but essentially noone does. Hot water significantly reduces the effectiveness of bleach, and so does using _more_ than you should, and also it loses effectiveness rapidly when it comes in contact with unclean surfaces, fat/organic material (which there is plenty of on your wall), etc, and also doesn't have a long shelf-life (20% effectiveness lost yearly if stored properly). It also needs 10-30 minutes of contact time, compared to some prepared solutions that are 90% effective in a few seconds, and 95% effective after 10 seconds.

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by michaelt on Monday February 05, 2018 @11:12AM (#16309671)

  you need to mix vinegar and fresh bleach
  with cold water (of which the fumes can
  actually kill you as well)
All the results I can find on Google for "bleach vinegar" say "Do not do this, chlorine gas is poison" - where can I learn more about how to do it properly, and why it works?
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by folknor on Monday February 05, 2018 @01:35PM (#16310840)
I believe it was Charlie Talley on this podcast: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390da96899933961/bbr03-29-07...

Essentially, you use the vinegar to adjust the pH of the water to the correct level - 8.0 - to get the right effect from the bleach (chlorine). Again, I have to stress what I said in my first post, that this _can be deadly for you_ if you don't use it correctly.

http://podbay.fm/show/75092679/e/1175200200 might be a better link, I'm not sure. Interview starts around 9:30.

Charlie is the inventor of Star San, a sanitizing solution used in breweries and by homebrewers. Which should make you skeptical, but don't be. He's essentially an expert who made a fantastic product, and only wants to help. In the podcast he outlines how to use normal household products as replacements for his products.

I haven't listened to it since 2012 or so, so if I am mistaken about the source, please let me know and I'll find the correct source of the information in my original post.

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by Reason077 on Wednesday February 07, 2018 @09:28AM (#16324576)
"Is it really though? I've lived three places in London and made sourdoughs with tap water in all with no trouble."

That's interesting. I haven't made real sourdough for a long time, but I do bake bagels, bread, and pizza dough pretty regularly. While London tap water does work, I've noticed on many occasions that the dough rises a lot faster and requires much less yeast when using filtered or bottled water (I usually use the cheap Tesco Ashbeck water that you buy in big 5L bottles) compared to using straight tap water.

But whether this is due to chlorination or other factors (London water is notoriously "hard", too) I'm not sure.

Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by collyw on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:26AM (#16308124)
Leaving water out for 24 hours will get rid of chlorine, so will boiling. Did your process involve either of those?
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by dt_rsp on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:34AM (#16308380)
Leaving it to stand works for chlorine, but not for chloramine, which a lot of tap water is treated with now instead. One would have to check with one's supplier.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by collyw on Monday February 05, 2018 @09:49AM (#16309040)
I have been fermenting home made ginger beer either using filtered water, or water sat out for 24 hours. So probably not with chloramine in it.
Re:London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’ by pjc50 on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:59AM (#16308245)
Not sure, but this is a problem on a smaller scale in domestic plumbing too.

I suspect because it's been cooked and lost all its emulsifiers, resulting in a hydrophobic blob. Water-based bacteria just slide off. I've seen cooked fat sit around in a kitchen for ages with no visible decay effects (but I wouldn't use it for cooking!)