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Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by simonh on Monday February 05, 2018 @03:30AM (#16307438)
That’s a very specific, very broad claim. Can you explain how (apparently all) religions structure and market their pyramidal incentive schemes? I’m not currently active in any organised religion, but I have been for long periods of time and didn’t really notice any pyramidal incentives. In fact there didn’t seem to be much in the way of proselytising at all and I was certainly not involved in doing so. What was I missing?
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by fpig on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:57AM (#16308464)
You're right, relatively few adults these days convert because someone "sold" them on the religion and in my majority-catholic country the church doesn't even make any serious attempt to do this or tell their followers to do this.

But christianity and islam are still the biggest MLM schemes in the world, however they work slightly differently.

Instead of being incentivized to recruit people around you, you are incentivized to create your own recruits by having as many children as possible and it's absolutely expected that you will "recruit" them. Also they love proselytizing (religious education etc) in schools, even though they don't care about doing it to adults. They know children are softer targets, and if they don't convert them before they reach adulthood, they're way less likely to succeed.

Basically it's all about proselytizing to children instead of adults. Get them while they're young!

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by gamechangr on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:30PM (#16313229)
Lumping "Christianity and Islam" reminds me of the craziness that passes as intellectualism on hacker news. "Mother Theresa and Hitler" believe in concentrations camps...come on? Maybe one more than the other?

At the very minimum, you should take a world religion class if you want to be taken seriously???

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by fpig on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @05:32AM (#16315424)
I don't need to take a "world religion class" to know how incredibly retarded the religion I grew up in is.

And your post is for sure a shining example of "intellectualism".

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by gamechangr on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @02:09PM (#16318618)
You grew up in both?

Or just like grouping two beliefs with about half the worlds population together?

Google says there are 2.2 Billion practicing Christians and 1.8 Billion practicing Islam.

How many Billion people are you referring to when you use the word "retarded"?

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by fpig on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @05:44PM (#16320641)
I group them together as the biggest MLM schemes in the world which sounds pretty much correct according to your own numbers

They are grouped together by size and by the fact they both prey on children as their main recruitment targets

Do you think "christanity and islam" should never be together in a sentence just because they differ in some aspects that are irrelevant to this conversation?

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by gamechangr on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @11:32PM (#16322255)
"to know how incredibly retarded"

Who were you referencing that's incredibly retarded?

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by simonh on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:21AM (#16308562)
I get that you don't like religion, but how is it a pyramid scheme where e.g. Humanism, political beliefs, a love of Country Music, or any one of a million other beliefs or preferences aren't? It seems to me to be an extraordinarily specific and weak claim.
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by fpig on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:23AM (#16308569)
Because the followers are supposed to make kids and recruit them into the church at the earliest possible age. They don't want it to be about preference, they want to "lock them in" before they start thinking for themselves. This is literally a part of the catholic religion, you're expected to try to have children and expected to recruit them.

It is not a part of any of your examples.

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by simonh on Monday February 05, 2018 @10:32AM (#16309345)
Teaching children your culture is a pyramid selling scheme? Got it.
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by AstralStorm on Monday February 05, 2018 @12:45PM (#16310460)
Religion is not the same as culture, and definitely is not the entirety of it. Nor should be.

Anabaptist out of Christian sects had the right idea in my opinion.

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by andy_ppp on Monday February 05, 2018 @03:38AM (#16307472)
Hmmm... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/201...

NB I hate Google for breaking the above URL but I’m tired of fixing them...

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by simonh on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:24AM (#16308573)
Some religions are wealthy and maybe you don't like that, fine. How is religion in general a form of pyramid selling though? I'm sure some religions are organised like that, or are used to run such schemes, but the claim seemed to be about religion in general. One particular religion, or groups of religions wasn't specified.
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by andy_ppp on Tuesday February 06, 2018 @12:58AM (#16314691)
The reward for the Ponzi scheme is the ultimate prize isn’t it; who wouldn’t want to live in paradise forever. All religions run this scheme, as far as I’m aware?
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by poizan42 on Monday February 05, 2018 @06:06AM (#16308047)
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by willvarfar on Monday February 05, 2018 @03:49AM (#16307521)
Well, those who spread the religion gain ego boosting status as preachers or such and, often, financial reward too. Lots of vicars with posh cars and TV drives to buy the bishop a private jet etc.
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by matt4077 on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:21AM (#16307859)
Bishops don't have private planes. The catholic church has its own set of faults, and it is very rich. But they also have smart PR people, and a pope who doesn't like luxury, and they keep their bishops on a short leash.

Edit: I thought "bishop" was a specifically catholic title. It appears that some televangelists may have misappropriated not just the faith, but also the title.

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by tialaramex on Monday February 05, 2018 @07:23AM (#16308341)
Most people think "Pope" is a Catholic title too, but Discordians believe all people (not even just Discordians) are Popes, and the crossover means that members of the Church of the SubGenius often acknowledge such Popes too.

Anyway, Catholicism is a lot bigger than the Roman Catholic Church. You have other very explicitly Catholic churches such as the Eastern Orthodox Church, and you also have faiths like Anglicanism, which are a weird hybrid where most (Roman) Catholics would consider them protestant, but they refer to themselves internally as a "Holy Catholic church", they have Bishops too (but no Pope, their spiritual head is for historical reasons the Queen of England) and so on.

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by willvarfar on Monday February 05, 2018 @05:37AM (#16307921)
Just a quick googling for private plane bishops http://dustoffthebible.com/Blog-archive/2015/10/28/15-religi... - not Catholic, but still..
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by simonh on Monday February 05, 2018 @08:25AM (#16308583)
You are completely missing the point. I could say that of politics, academia, capitalism, country music. What has any of this got to do with pyramid selling?
Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by willvarfar on Monday February 05, 2018 @09:41AM (#16308985)
No, not deliberately.

The thing about religion is that believers try to recruit others and get their standing from that, whether its the small scale parents recruiting their children and deriving authority over their children from that, or those born again who feel compelled to save others. You can't say the same about politics or academia or country music - its not like everyone who goes to university has an interest in educating the unwashed masses; generally, the incentive for someone with a degree is to wish they were rarer! ;)

Re:Pyramid schemes causing social harm in China – crackdowns... by simonh on Monday February 05, 2018 @10:39AM (#16309396)
Not all religious people try to recruit others, I never have, and not all of them indoctrinate or coerce it into their children. I haven't. Some do, sure. That's on them, but 'religion' is a huge category.

For what it's worth, my religious beliefs are shall we say pretty individual. I have no reason to protect, support or defend any other religions. I regard many of them to be pretty appalling in a variety of ways and some of them certainly do engage in aggressive proselytising, deceptive practices and such. But not all of them. In general, specific examples aside, the things I have against them have nothing to do with pyramid selling though and lazy opportunistic slurring like this does nobody any favours.