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Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by trowawee on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:31PM (#16284386)
Not the author of the parent comment, but my family shifted from solidly middle-class to members of the 1% over the course of a few years in the early 2000s (my teenage years) as our family business became significantly more successful. Here are some of the things I've experienced that strike me as examples of that:

- Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone specifically makes) is gauche.

- Depending on the group and the location, there are functionally dress codes - you show up to brunch in sweats and sneakers and everyone else is in polos and boat shoes, you "dress up" in a shirt and khakis, everyone else is wearing a blazer and slacks, you put on a Macy's suit for a formal event and everyone else is wearing Tom Ford or Armani.

- What you do for leisure can be a fraught discussion - we eventually started traveling more, but I've met people who talked casually about summering in Ibiza or the Hamptons (and who used "summer" as a verb), or who have seasonal homes. "I stayed home and played X-Box" as an explanation for what you did on vacation earns a side-eye.

- What and how you eat, although that one has relaxed a little bit over the last few years as street food has been gentrified and made trendier.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by kbenson on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:52PM (#16284571)
The reverse of this can be true too. Growing up, we weren't rich, but did better than most my friends families. Downplaying that your largish (4 kids) family flies across the country for a week plus vacation once a year and not talking about money or new stuff stuff becomes a thing then too. Partly that was probably me being overly sensitive, but group dynamics and expectations are tricky things, and this was only a mild difference.

Edit: I should note this was in northern California, where people generally do not vacation on the east coast because of both local attractions and a high cost of living that makes saving for vacations much harder to do. We happened to have some family in the Carolinas which was part of our reason.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by brandonmenc on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:00PM (#16284653)
> Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone specifically makes) is gauche.

This is not just a rich people rule.

I grew up solidly middle class, and you could hear a pin drop if you asked someone in the room how much they were paid or how much that engagement ring cost.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by coldtea on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:09PM (#16284769)
That would be upper middle class.

(Not to mention in the US even coal miners would describe themselves as "middle class" these days, nobody is "working class" anymore).

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by biztos on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:29PM (#16285568)
Not where I come from (rural Northern California).

We were pretty much lower middle class (sometimes lower-lower) , had friends who were better off and friends who were much worse off, and nobody really talked about money openly.

In my family I always figured it was WASP reticence, but now that you mention it I think it was something broader. Maybe: people with money don't need to talk about it, people without money are embarrassed to talk about it, and if you're somewhere in the middle you don't want to reveal your hand.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by svachalek on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:31PM (#16285036)
Maybe a regional thing then? Or as you hinted you're talking about a different sort of middle class. I grew up in a large family with a single government income, went to school with a lot of kids that were poorer than me (and some richer of course), and so on, and I can't remember a situation where it was just "ok" to talk about anything that made someone's finances explicit.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by brandonmenc on Thursday February 01, 2018 @06:10PM (#16286842)
> That would be upper middle class.

My father poured molten metal in a foundry as a married 19 year old.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by emodendroket on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:49PM (#16284534)
> - What and how you eat, although that one has relaxed a little bit over the last few years as street food has been gentrified and made trendier.

I'm so damn sick of all this stuff. It's like nobody can just make a normal dish without putting some insipid "twist" on it anymore.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by trowawee on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:55PM (#16284600)
Really? I grew up in the Midwest where chicken fried rice from the local Chinese place was about as exotic as it got, and our standard meals were some form of overcooked meat, potatoes, and a token green. The evolution of the food and restaurant scenes in the US is one of the things I'm pretty happy about. It can definitely be handled poorly, but for the most part I think it's been a positive.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by kbenson on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:12PM (#16284804)
I think what's being referred to is less about more options, and more about combining options in a new way so you can up sell it. Getting access to your first Thai, Indian etc. restaurant is amazing. Suffering through someone's new tex-mex/filipino/Eskimo fusion because friends want to try it is often not.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by emodendroket on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:28PM (#16285006)
Variety is great. I love access to various ethnic cuisines. What I'm sick of is how you can't get normal fries because they are all sweet potato fries with truffle oil and similar gimmicks.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by dsfyu404ed on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:57PM (#16285286)
Go to lower or higher class restaurants if you want food that is not optimized for buzzword density.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by emodendroket on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:40PM (#16285649)
That's my preference but I'm not always choosing.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by rayiner on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:42PM (#16285144)
The clothing stuff works the other way too. My parents were always well off, but we’re immigrants. I know to wear a nice suit to a client meeting. But I’m completely at a loss when it comes to all the intermediate levels of clothing. Like, what do you wear when it would be weird to wear a business suit but improper to wear jeans?
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by jdietrich on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:17PM (#16285461)
Take a look in Brooks Brothers or Banana Republic. You'll see the standard upper-middle-class smart-casual wardrobe - chinos and cords, oxford shirts, v-neck sweaters, sport coats and brogues. There's some nuance, but it's not rocket science.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by hkmurakami on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:34PM (#16286125)
imo the social attire is much more difficult to parse than the business attire.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by sedachv on Friday February 02, 2018 @04:52AM (#16289503)
It is much more regional as well. Nantucket reds might be acceptable casual attire in places on the East coast; here in California they come off as the clown pants that they really are.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by setr on Friday February 02, 2018 @11:55PM (#16296261)
Sweater or loose shirt in a darker color (navy, dark green, etc), black pants, black simple shoes/boots is almost always a safe bet, at least in america. Comfy enough for casual settings, proper enough for more official settings, depending on how you carry it.

Clothing is usually pretty easy once you find the staples; after that its your behavior that makes it. To actually look good though, you need to understand the group's values enough to move beyond the basics.

And of course, you need to learn to have an opinion on clothing, to understand (and deny) other's opinions. At the very least, when some chucklefuck gives you a look for eating fries by hand, you should be able to defend your position

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by stcredzero on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:47PM (#16284512)
A lot of that is covered in:

Class: A Guide Through the American Status System by Paul Fussell

Link: http://a.co/406UQB1

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by trowawee on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:50PM (#16284550)
I read that back in high school. I'd be interested to see how it holds up today, given the massive increase in overall inequality and the hollowing out of the middle class in the US.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by segmondy on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:13PM (#16284827)
Still holds up. Some of the social signaling has changed, but the book still holds up quite well from what I recall the last time I read it.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by dmitrygr on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:07PM (#16285384)
A little dated, but still an amazing book!
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by austinjp on Friday February 02, 2018 @04:14AM (#16289368)
> Talking specifically about money

Yes, and I'd extend this to talking about where your money comes from, as well as how you spend it. Don't expect a straight or detailed answer to "What do you do (for work)?" or "Where did you buy that?"

Asking those questions immediately marks you.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by cryptoz on Thursday February 01, 2018 @01:49PM (#16284532)
That all sounds so miserable. I think I'd rather stay middle class than deal with that stuff.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by dizzystar on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:08PM (#16285395)
To my mind, watering and feeding your lawn so that it is nice and green and exactly 1 1/2" tall all year round is a solid middle-class indicator. I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value.

Not throwing daggers or anything, but every strata has things that are a bit strange about them.

Yes, I know that upper class does that too, unless you are in the hills where there really isn't any lawn to take care of, etc.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by jdietrich on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:30PM (#16285569)
>I find it kind of strange to spend that time and money on doing something that has little to no productive value.

That's entirely the point. Lawns originated in the middle ages as a status symbol. They demonstrated a) that you could afford to waste a perfectly useful piece of arable land and b) you could afford to pay a team of men to neatly scythe and shear it. It's hard to tell how much land an aristocrat actually owns, but the size of their lawn acted as a reasonable proxy.

The invention of the mechanical lawnmower helped to democratize the lawn, establishing it as a symbol of middle-class suburbia. A small lawn in front of a suburban house didn't demonstrate that you were gratuitously wealthy, but did demonstrate that a) you could afford a larger plot of land than strictly necessary to accommodate your house and b) you had leisure time to spare.

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by walshemj on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:59PM (#16285831)
Well not really My grandparents lived in a council house (with outside loo) in Birmingham (uk) and if you don't keep your garden looking nice the corporation would evict you.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by ryandrake on Thursday February 01, 2018 @03:50PM (#16285746)
I suppose it varies regionally. To me, merely owning a lawn is something reserved for the upper crust, let alone having the time to maintain one. The middle class lives in small apartments and rents houses (with roommates or extended family).
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by closeparen on Friday February 02, 2018 @02:47AM (#16289090)
Everyone in the Bay Area was was forced to step down a class so that the tech boom and neighborhood character could coexist. Owning a (modest) suburban home for your nuclear family is baseline middle class everywhere else. Renting (and especially renting with roommates) is for students and the poor.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by emodendroket on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:06PM (#16285894)
That's mostly a symptom of a shrinking middle class, in my mind.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by trowawee on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:08PM (#16284756)
I mean, there are social codes in any group. It's not unique to rich people, it's just how humans are. There are middle class equivalents to some of these. Growing up, we didn't shop at Nordstrom, but we certainly didn't shop at Goodwill. In most places, there are "middle class" grocery stores and clothing shops. It's just that, if you don't shift groups, you usually don't notice the rules and structures because you've internalized them so much. "What the hell is water?"[1] and all that.

[1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122178211966454607

Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by emodendroket on Thursday February 01, 2018 @04:09PM (#16285919)
Yeah, that's true. I can remember my mom acting like I'd completely lost my mind when I first discovered cheap jeans at Walmart and bought some, but there really wasn't much appreciable difference from the more expensive ones I usually got.
Re:How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? by coldtea on Thursday February 01, 2018 @02:12PM (#16284808)
You have that as middle class too.

Try liking somethings considered as "white trash" hobbies/entertainment/activities, or as "posh" ones as a middle class person.

(E.g. a middle class high schooler who likes the opera instead of say, Hip Hop or whatever. Or wear some Comme De Garcons clothes around middle class dressed people, or stuff you bought at the Dollar Store...)