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Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by joaofs on Monday January 29, 2018 @05:24PM (#16261187)
Couldn't agree more. The bandwagon effect is something also worth mentioning. Tech stacks and tools these days are branded almost as consumer products and the outcome is poorly designed systems.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by lotyrin on Monday January 29, 2018 @06:01PM (#16261390)
The net present value to a developer of dooming their current employer's current project by choosing an unsuitable technology which they could put on their resume to negotiate future salary (at a position they'll be moving to in, on average, months not years) is going to swamp betting on something boring but stable, completing the project, staying put and crossing their fingers for raises that outpace inflation.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by majormajor on Monday January 29, 2018 @06:11PM (#16261451)
The root problem here is our hiring and interviewing system.

Imagine if interviewing rewarded "look I know all this stuff about writing simple functions in Stack X" less than "yes, the project shipped, and beat its deadline, because we decided to use library Y that the devs already knew even with the acknowledged pain points, instead of bringing a new technology in just for this project. We have some less-mission critical areas where we decided to experiment with new tech, but needed something predictable here."

Evaluating a senior dev based on junior-dev-esque implementation tasks instead of "does this person know how to avoid over-complicating our job?" is ludicrous. As an industry we interview to find "clever" people rather than "wise" people.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by mistermann on Monday January 29, 2018 @08:23PM (#16262164)
The problem in my experience working in "enterprise" shops is that more often that that, most of the employee hierarchy is in on the scam - managers know developers are padding hours, developers know middle managers are peddling snake oil up the chain, and senior managers are painting a picture of success to their superiors to get their big fat bonus. And very often, almost all of it is an illusion, and when everyone's done and the final product sucks for end users, everyone responsible has long ago declared it to be a smashing success and moved on, and the poor support developers have Yet Another Over-engineered Mess on their hands. Rinse, repeat.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by WillReplyfFood on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @05:24AM (#16264204)
The purest capitalistic endavours are drug deals, theft and scams.

The more refined variants, which find law loopholes and apply them with leverage,are still the same approach.

Look at those jailbirds under the sky, they do not sow, but our Lord the Ford, supplies them better then those working none the less.

The shareholders of a company know this deep down as well, so one serial scam series later- the comon pension er who had to use bad software all his life, can retire knowing he ripped off some poor schmock to have this.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by user5994461 on Monday January 29, 2018 @06:48PM (#16261672)
Outside of web development, you can get a job fine without using this year framework. However, you still have to leave after a year to get more than inflation.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by squeeeeeeeeeee on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @12:59AM (#16263200)
> you still have to leave after a year to get more than inflation

This hits home. I've been in software development for quite some time (10 years), I've been with 4 employers so far (full time) and pretty much all my significant raises have come as a result of me looking for a better paying position and then leaving. I may have been unlucky (I also did not work for a really large company yet), but I feel like the "career develoment" opportunities within software engineering companies are way under the level they should be.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by reassembled on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @01:25AM (#16263295)
I think this has been the way of the tech industry, and particularly SV, for a long time now. My uncle, now passed away, started at Atari in the early 80s and hopped companies every three years until his final job with Nvidia in a fairly senior position. He stayed with Nvidia until his death a little over a year ago.

Each time he switched it up he grew his salary exponentially.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by tincholio on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @03:17AM (#16263716)
Exponential growth, every three years, since the 80s... sounds a bit hyperbolic, doesn't it? Just how much did he make at Nvidia??
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by TeMPOraL on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @04:06AM (#16263901)
Exponential growth means just constant growth rate. Doesn't mean it's a big growth rate. 2% a year will double the starting salary in... 35 years.

;).

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by brango on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @06:17AM (#16264384)
No it doesn't. It means an exponent is present.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by jamessb on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @08:59AM (#16265286)
Constant growth rate gives rise to a quantity that is an exponential function of time [not to be confused with a constant rate of increase, which gives rise to a linear function of time].

As that Wikipedia article says, the continuous-time equation for exponential growth, x(t) = x(0) e^(kt), arises as the solution to the ODE x'(t) = kx, where k is the constant growth rate.

Similarly, in discrete-time, exponential growth follows the equation x_t = x_0 (1+r)^t, where r is the constant growth rate.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by brango on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @10:21AM (#16265944)
I stand corrected.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by edmccard on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @06:40AM (#16264498)
The formula for constant growth over time, for example, a 2% increase every year, would be starting salary * 1.02 ^ t where t is the number of years. So there is an exponent present, and constant growth is an exponential process.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by racer-v on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @04:09AM (#16263912)
Maybe Nvidia was his second job?
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by pjmlp on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @07:19AM (#16264669)
That is pretty much country specific.

Been with the same employer for several years, jumping between web and native projects in all those years, across multiple clients.

Inflation was never a problem.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by monksy on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @12:34AM (#16263114)
THAT RIGHT THERE.

The newer development trends haven't focused on experience. They've focused on resume driven development.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by brango on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @06:21AM (#16264411)
It's not a tech issue, it's a business issue. Why give people bigger raises than they may otherwise ask for? That's just wasting money. It's the same logic for why you only get a good deal when you threaten to leave your mobile phone provider. They don't want to proactively reduce your rate or make it too easy to get a discount otherwise they might be doing it unnecessarily.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

With work, it's also about an employee's best alternative, and also the psychology of "well, you used to work for x, so we'll only pay you a small increase since that's obviously what you'll work for". It's as much the psychological aspect as anything else since it's difficult to decide the "price" of something without any reference (i.e. a new employee).

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by quickthrower2 on Monday January 29, 2018 @10:45PM (#16262752)
My experience in Australia is this is OK. Very few companies for example would expect you to have React experience. If you have any web framework experience (or just know JS well) you are OK.

Usually on the back end they are fussy about your main stack, e.g. C# -> Ruby would be hard. Java -> C# more possible. However within that, which frameworks you have used, e.g. Akka, NHibernate etc. doesn't matter.

NoSQL, or any particular DB technology is rarely expected.

My experience is companies are fairly conservative with their tech choices here. A 4 yr old framework is typical! Usually there will be 1 or 2 cutting edge things being tried out, but without uprouting everything.

Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by blablabla123 on Monday January 29, 2018 @06:22PM (#16261524)
Therefore it's crucial to have a nice work culture. When employers only think of themselves, employees copy that. On the other hand the people doing the actual coding must also be able to learn something new, that's just how the technology world works. If the employers don't help with that, the employees are doomed eventually.
Re:Software Complexity Is Killing Us by pjmlp on Tuesday January 30, 2018 @07:12AM (#16264639)
Exactly, frameworks and tools are resume driven, everyone is putting new ones as a means to sell themselves to companies, do conference talks, set up their consultancy, ....

And when they move along to the new shiny thingy, those tech stacks die unless they achieved momentum beyond the usual adoption curve.