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Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by pjmlp on Sunday January 28, 2018 @05:17PM (#16253912)
I kind of disagree, at least in what concerns the Plan 9 lineage, Inferno was way better.

Sadly it appears most people just stop at the middle, instead of the last version of Plan 9's evolution.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by maga_2020 on Sunday January 28, 2018 @10:20PM (#16255112)
I also feel that InfernoOS deserves better recognition and interest.

From Inferno OS page [1] :

>>>..As this is part of the underlying system, all applications gain these benefits automatically. 9P runs over various transport protocols including TCP/IP.

9P was originally developed for use with Plan 9 from Bell Labs. A simplified subset called Styx was used in Inferno for a few years, but now Inferno's protocol is exactly the same as 9P. Some manual pages and older papers still refer to Styx. <<<

I think major constraint (or advantage, depending how you look at it) -- is that you can only use GO-like programming language, Limbo, to develop for it. No other language runtime is supported.

[1] http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/design.html

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by f2f on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:07PM (#16254149)
I've always enjoyed your opinion on alternative operating systems and languages. I love plan9, I wore my thesis in it, but that was based on the knowledge that other distributed operating systems existed at the time, amoeba being the most fun to learn about. Now it's a wasteland... And I really would prefer to explore.

I think better or worse isn't the important theme here. It's that we've lost variety...

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by bringtheaction on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:52PM (#16254346)
Distributed computing is being reborn in the crypto currency sphere.

Perhaps in 20 or 30 years we will have something akin to plan9 or inferno composed from nodes on these networks?

After all, at some point everything old becomes new again when it comes to computer technology.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by no_identd on Monday January 29, 2018 @12:39PM (#16259091)
>Perhaps in 20 or 30 years we will have something akin to plan9 or inferno composed from nodes on these networks?

Seems highly likely to occur within less than a decade. Tops. Just not on the blockchain. Likely something not-blockchain, e.g. https://ecsa.io/ (which /interacts/ with the blockchain, but isn't blockchain based.)

People massively underestimate just how fast technology progresses at the moment.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by qubex on Monday January 29, 2018 @06:53AM (#16256938)
While the blockchain is clearly a distributed system, in a very real sense it is the antithesis of classical meanings of distributed computing in the sense that cryptocurrencies are designed to escalate their level of difficulty so as to fend off being accelerated by distributed processing, the exact opposite of most distributed systems that are designed to explicitly harness, or at least collaterally benefit from, parallelism.
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by brucephillips on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:06PM (#16254407)
What does it mean for an operating system to run on the blockchain?
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by arghwhat on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:31PM (#16254505)
Nothing. It is an impossible construct. The blockchain is a (very limited) distributed immutable storage system. It cannot run anything, and participating in a blockchain requires a minimal operating system to be present (storage/network/process management).
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by spynxic on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:19PM (#16254456)
Operating System: - the software that supports a computer's basic functions, such as scheduling tasks, executing applications, and controlling peripherals.

Blockchain: - A decentralized and distributed digital ledger that is used to record transactions across many computers so that the record cannot be altered retroactively without the alteration of all subsequent blocks and the collusion of the network.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by brucephillips on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:22PM (#16254474)
Is this supposed to answer my question?
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by spynxic on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:25PM (#16254487)
No, just preface into their intended functions.

Edit: One might question what the ledger tracks in terms of operating toward user needs as opposed to financial activity.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by Sir_Cmpwn on Sunday January 28, 2018 @05:26PM (#16253951)
I'm not a huge fan of Limbo and most of the other changes aren't very compelling imo. I think plan9 is better.
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by hoopladler on Sunday January 28, 2018 @05:43PM (#16254043)
I just went and read the wiki page to try and evaluate your statement, but I still don't get it. I mean, I like the distributing computing concept, but what makes Plan 9 especially interesting?
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by ddevault on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:08PM (#16254155)
Compared to Inferno? It's simpler. I think plan9 is great example of getting a lot done with a very simple design.
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by Koshkin on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:29PM (#16254254)
Well, comparing Inferno and Plan9 only makes sense to a certain degree. Inferno includes a VM, and it was designed to compete with Java, whereas Plan9 was conceived as a replacement (or evolution) of UNIX.
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by pjmlp on Monday January 29, 2018 @02:33AM (#16255970)
It makes some sense from the point of view that Inferno contains some design decisions that were initially planed for Plan 9 and had to be thrown away due to implementation issues, like Alef then reborned as Limbo.

In any case the C APIs are the same as Plan 9 anyway.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by hoopladler on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:23PM (#16254227)
Sorry, I meant plan9 in general.
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by ddevault on Sunday January 28, 2018 @06:29PM (#16254250)
The kernel is simple and sanely designed and interfacing with it is done through the filesystem in, again, a very simple and sane way. Your displays are configured by a simple <10 line shell script at boot time that writes plaintext to a device file, rather than a gargantuan graphics stack that's controlled with binary device files and ioctls. Filesystem namespaces are lovely, and make the filesystem cleanly organized and customized to the logged in user's needs and desires. I have a little script that clears my current terminal window: `echo -n "" > /dev/text`. The libc is small and focused (non-POSIX), and there are only a handful of syscalls. The process model is really sane and straightforward as well. Playing an mp3 file is `mp3dec < file.mp3 > /dev/audio`.

To open a TCP connection, you use the dial(3) function, which basically does the following: write "tcp!name!port" to /net/cs and read out "1.2.3.4!80" (/net/cs resolves the name), then you write "connect 1.2.3.4" to /net/tcp/clone and read out a connection ID, and open /net/tcp/:id/data which is now a full-duplex TCP stream.

There's this emphasis on simple, sane ways of fulfilling tasks on plan9 that permeates the whole system. It's beautiful.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by hoopladler on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:02PM (#16254388)
Actually, I can kinda see the advantages there - but isn't insanity just a natural result of trying to work in lots of contexts?

I mean, consider something like vim. It's a nice program, well designed - but undoubtedly insane, just because it's supposed to work in every imaginable context.

It strikes me that plan9 wouldn't be immune to the same phenomenon.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by arghwhat on Sunday January 28, 2018 @07:40PM (#16254545)
It is all about keeping the OS sane to give the users and applications a chance to be sane, rather than causing madness from the get-go.

However, if the system permits arbitrary applications to be executed (which plan9 does), then it cannot be shielded from madness. Proof: plan9 has a POSIX compatibility layer (APE), a vt100 terminal emulator and a vim port. It even has an aging full-on linux emulator. I think it could run a really old version of Firefox, but the memory is vague. People swear by Mothra these days anyway.

Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by henesy on Sunday January 28, 2018 @09:32PM (#16254932)
It also has a virtual machine system down served by vmx(1) http://man.cat-v.org/9front/1/vmx.
Re:Introduction to OS Abstractions Using Plan 9 from Bell La... by arghwhat on Monday January 29, 2018 @02:25AM (#16255933)
That's new. Haven't used 9front for a while.