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Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by user9182031 on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:39PM (#16241090)
Could you share why you think it would impact the price of Bitcoin? With a market cap of 186 billion dollars, and a daily volume of 10 billion I couldn't see how it'd have that much of an impact.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by dumbfounder on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:43PM (#16241124)
Because it makes it seem like exchanges are not trustworthy places to keep your crypto, and for basic users a lot of people just keep their crypto there. Fear, no matter how how misplaced, can cause markets to sway heavily.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by trey-jones on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:52PM (#16241217)
Exchanges are not a trustworthy place to keep your crypt. I think that is accepted. What does it have to do with the value of the thing?
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by dumbfounder on Friday January 26, 2018 @02:42PM (#16242241)
Imagine you have 2 sets of keys to your house and if you lose both then your house is not yours anymore. That's what keeping your money outside an exchange seems like to me. Exchanges are easy and familiar to people.

If there was some secure way to do password recovery that was built into the currency that might be a game changer. That might be impossible by definition, not sure.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by icebraining on Friday January 26, 2018 @04:17PM (#16242964)
I think you definitively could make something like Keybase on Bitcoin, by using multiple third-party institutions (chosen by the user) as a fallback.

When sending coins to your storage address, you'd say "anyone can use this money if they have this private key OR if they get a digitally-signed certificate from 3 out of 4 of these keys (A, B, C, D)". Those keys could belong to different institutions (or persons) that would declare they vouch for your identity.

Then if you lost your key, you'd go to each of them to get your certificate signed and could then use the coins again.

--

Of course, this means that if those institutions colluded, or all got hacked, you could still lose your coins, but it'd be harder than just keeping them in an exchange.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by cocktailpeanuts on Friday January 26, 2018 @05:17PM (#16243356)
It's called "multisig wallet", and a lot of reputable online wallets implement this.

Instead of doing what you suggested, normally it's 2 of 3 where it's your cold wallet, your hot wallet, and the online wallet provider.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by KMag on Friday January 26, 2018 @05:06PM (#16243284)
Too bad Bitcoin uses ECDSA instead of Ed25519 (or any other signature algorithm supporting threshold signatures). With threshold signatures, you don't even need something in the wallet saying "any N of the following M", you could just give secret shares to those M parties, and any N of them could collaborate to sign something using your single public key.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by glitch003 on Friday January 26, 2018 @06:40PM (#16243815)
You could just do that anyway by running Shamir's Secret Sharing Scheme on a Bitcoin private key, splitting the key into M parts where any N of M parts can be combined to recover the original private key.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by KMag on Friday January 26, 2018 @07:37PM (#16244104)
That's a fair point, but threshold signatures are more generally useful, such as N of M board members authorizing payment to X, without having to place trust in a single board member not to change the transaction to a different amount or address.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by KMag on Friday January 26, 2018 @04:56PM (#16243215)
Do you have M friends, of which you're certain at most N-1 would collaborate to steal from you and/or get hacked? In that case, you can do secure password recovery.

Shamir's secret sharing algorithm can be applied over many groups other than GF(2^N). In particular, you can generate a polynomial of degree N where F(0) is your ECDSA private key, and for 1 < x < M, tell trusted party number x that they're party x and F(x) = y. Cooperation/collusion among any N of the M parties is sufficient to reconstruct the polynomial and calculate F(0). However, N-1 collaborators learn nothing about F(0), as long as you've generated all of your coefficients randomly and uniformly over the size of the subgroup generated by your elliptic curve's generator.

You can even have N parties each generate their own secret random polynomial f of degree N, and publicly share f(0)*G and privately share f(x) with party x. You add up all of the publicly shared elliptic curve points to get a public key for which no one party knows the secret key. Each party remembers the sum of the f(x) secrets they've been told. For polynomials, f(x) + g(x) + h(x) = (g+g+h)(x), so any N of the participants can collaborate to calculate the previously unknown polynomial for which f(0) is the private key. You need to first share Pedersen commitments of the public f(0)G values, perform a sanity check on those, and then reveal the f(0)G values and perform some more sanity checks in order to rule out cheating. See https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gennaro+distributed+key+generation

Once you have your public key for which nobody knows the private key, you can perform the same procedure to generate the random R value of the (R,S) pair of a Schnorr signature. Each party can then perform a Schnorr signature on H using their secret share of R and their secret share of the public key. They each reveal their signatures, and any N of those signatures can be used to reconstruct a polynomial where F(0) is the S value in the (R,S) signature on H. At the end, all of the sub-signatures and the final signature can be made public without anyone learning anything about the secret values. This is called a threshold signature scheme. (There are other threshold signature schemes. I had to implement threshold RSA in Rivest's 6.857 class.)

Unfortunately, ECDSA isn't a Schnorr signature scheme, but Ed25519 is. Any coin built using Schnorr signatures for wallets would allow you to construct threshold wallets where any N of M parties can collaborate to spend from the wallet, but generating transactions doesn't leak information to anyone about how to generate transactions alone.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by KMag on Friday January 26, 2018 @05:49PM (#16243538)
I should add that with Schnorr signatures, if you have a bunch of signatures on the same H, you can add up all of the (R,S) pairs of signatures, and the result is a single signature where the public key is the sum of all of the public keys of the N signers. This allows very compact storage and verification of multi-party signatures. All of these nice properties are just consequences of the linear composability of Schnorr signatures.

BitCoin, at present, only supports ECDSA signatures, which aren't linearly composable.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by Obi_Juan_Kenobi on Friday January 26, 2018 @04:59PM (#16243229)
I can't believe this is downvoted; this has been a mantra in the cryptocurrency community for years. If you don't control your private keys, you don't control the coin.

Traders take a risk in putting funds, fiat or otherwise, on an exchange. Many use domestic exchanges that have higher fees in an attempt to mitigate this risk. They are all well aware, but see the reward to be worth it.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by tn_ on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:58PM (#16241271)
Bruh if it's accepted then why did people just lose over a half a billion $ storing their cryptocurrency in one.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by sincerely on Friday January 26, 2018 @02:27PM (#16242122)
I don't hold a lot of crypto or anything but one of the most repeated sentiments in communities, guides etc is "don't store money in an exchange". People do it, just like people sometimes buy drugs on DNMs without using PGP encryption, and /usually/ it doesn't end badly for them, but the worst-case scenario (exchange hacked or exit scams and arrest respectively) is pretty bad.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by vkou on Friday January 26, 2018 @03:22PM (#16242563)
The worst-case scenario of losing access to your personal wallet is pretty bad, too.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by ht85 on Friday January 26, 2018 @01:08PM (#16241397)
Why do people drink and drive?
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by tn_ on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:45PM (#16241149)
The reason why fiat currencies are main-stream is because there's trust. People trust they can deposit and withdraw their money to and from banks w/ some semblance of protection and have transactions with little friction. News like this signals that you really shouldn't trust any crypto-currency exchange yet (just browse r/coinbase and people are waiting 1+ month to receive funds) , and I'll see a headline like the above and it's not surprising.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by kirillseva on Friday January 26, 2018 @02:44PM (#16242264)
That's because people should stop using centralized exchanges that don't have their funds insured, and should instead investigate using decentralized exchanges. Cross-blockchain ones are currently being developed, with OmiseGO and KyberNetwork competing to be the first to launch.

On Ethereum this ecosystem is much more developed, and you can choose between EtherDelta, IDEX, 0xProject and Radex.

These exchanges eliminate counterparty risk because you control your funds at all times. They essentially act as matchmakers between those creating buy/sell orders and those who fill them.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by davidcbc on Friday January 26, 2018 @03:21PM (#16242555)
You have to be able to explain this in a way that normal people are going to understand and care about. Whenever issues with cryptocurrency come up the true believers trip over themselves to post how it will all be solved if everyone just does this one additional thing nobody outside of the community understands, or if you just use this other cryptocurrency that solves this problem (but probably has other problems that are solved by this third cryptocurrency).
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by optimuspaul on Friday January 26, 2018 @04:57PM (#16243218)
What is a decentralized exchange?

Why would I want to put my money into something "decentralized" when my bank does a fine job?

Cryptocurrencies are complicated and nonsensical at times. I have yet to see anything in this space that makes me actually think it's the future of anything. It's far too risky.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by glitch003 on Friday January 26, 2018 @06:48PM (#16243856)
> Why would I want to put my money into something "decentralized" when my bank does a fine job?

Because you trust that your money will still be in the bank, in full, when you want to withdraw it. People in Cyprus, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe don't have that trust because it's been broken by bailouts and hyperinflation.

As long as the economy doesn't hyperinflate, and the banks don't haircut your accounts, and the IRS doesn't freeze your funds, and the government doesn't use civil forfeiture to take your money because they suspect you could be involved in criminal activity, your money is safe.

Therefore, many people see holding cryptocurrency as a hedge against that type of stuff.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by kirillseva on Friday January 26, 2018 @07:24PM (#16244035)
Assuming we want to exchange two tokens, let's say, FBI and NSA.

Centralized exchange: send your FBI to exchange's wallet -> exchange updates your balance in its database, i.e. postgres -> trade for NSA -> withdraw NSA, which causes the exchange to send you NSA tokens (if they have them) and update another record in its DB.

The problem is in "if they have them". While normal banks are FDIC insured and a run on the bank won't prevent them from giving you your money, crypto exchanges provide no such guarantees. If the money is stolen from the exchange, like in the case of the OP, then you are SOL. Basically, you have to trust the exchange as much as you trust your bank. And clearly one entity is way more trustworthy than another.

In the decentralized exchange case, instead of trusting an organization to keep money safe through operational processes and tight regulation, you trust a smart contract. Provided that the smart contract has no bugs, this pretty much eliminates the need to trust the exchange. You trust it just as much as you trust mathematics.

Hope my explanation is not too verbose and makes sense.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by rhapsodic on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:55PM (#16241242)
>Could you share why you think it would impact the price of Bitcoin? With a market cap of 186 billion dollars, and a daily volume of 10 billion I couldn't see how it'd have that much of an impact.

When hundreds of millions of dollars worth can disappear in the blink of an eye like that, it adds a new element of risk aside from the risk of normal price drops. So it only stands to reason that investors would factor that into the value they place on bitcoin and the price would go down.

Have you ever noticed that currencies issued by corrupt and/or unstable governments tend to be worth little relative to the currencies of stable, well-governed countries?

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by buttcoinslol on Friday January 26, 2018 @01:01PM (#16241308)
The coins didn't disappear, they just changed hands.
Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by rhapsodic on Friday January 26, 2018 @01:04PM (#16241360)
>The coins didn't disappear, they just changed hands.

To the crime victim, they just disappeared. Owning bitcoin is a very risky proposition for those who aren't extremely savvy in protecting themselves from thieves.

Re:Tokyo-based cryptocurrency exchange hacked, losing $530M:... by frgtpsswrdlame on Friday January 26, 2018 @12:45PM (#16241150)
Because it's a great illustration of the hidden risks in holding cryptocurrency.