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Re:Waze Carpool by dmix on Thursday January 25, 2018 @10:40AM (#16231519)
I'm not sure why anyone would need to feel guilty or worry about that fact though.

People do that everywhere. Toronto is famous for it's diversity and multiculturalism but the entire city is finely divided into various ethnic, cultural, and work enclaves (little korea, little ethiopia, 2x little italys, etc). And it works great for the most part, there's little ethnic or political tension, at least within the city proper.

It's a natural phenomenon. The simple fact is people primarily like being near people like themselves, culturally or otherwise. Intellectuals, working class, artists etc, etc have always grouped up.

Absent some type of grand social engineering I don't see how you could change that. Nor whether the people would be better of with it.

But just because there are enclaves or grouping doesn't mean you need to be isolated in your social networks either. Cities are big places with plenty of people and SF is no different.

Re:Waze Carpool by freehunter on Thursday January 25, 2018 @11:04AM (#16231772)
>I'm not sure why anyone would need to worry about that fact

SV is famous for solving problems that impact SV or cities like SV. Whenever I hear the question from startup/techie folks "are we in a bubble", I always think the answer is "yes, but not how you think". We're not in a bubble of too many high valuation startups, we're in a bubble where we don't understand the rest of the world around us. Because we're living paycheck to paycheck on a $250k salary in a $5k/mo studio apartment getting our food from Postmates and having drones deliver our Amazon packages. And after a while, you start to think that's just how it is. But it's not. Not for the vast majority of people who don't live in SV, Austin, or Seattle.

That's the value diversity brings, that's the danger of suburbs everyone's been talking about since forever, and that's where the Bay Area is going. Quickly.

The closest Whole Foods to me is over an hour and a half away. Until last year, the closest Trader Joe's was over 3 hours away. I work in tech making six figures, and my neighbor (living in a detached, single family home) is a diesel mechanic. The guy on the other side owns his own home but just works as a cashier at the local grocery store, because our cost of living isn't ridiculous and you can afford a house on $12/hr. Even myself, I recently got schooled when I said $65k/yr doesn't make you rich: the number of people popping out of the wood-work to say what making $65k would mean to them and what luxuries it could afford them was astounding. Just hitting $65k would double most of their income.

We don't have Uber around here. We don't have Postmates. Amazon doesn't deliver same-day. We can't get Google to drop off our groceries for us. Our employers don't have a bus to take us to work. Some people may say "but all of those luxuries are the reason why we moved to SV!", but in response I say all of those luxuries are reasons massing together in SV is so harmful. First, it colors our worldview to think our life is normal. Secondly, it ignores everyone else in the world and the real problems they have.

I'm not even talking about segregating races and ethnicities. I'm sure there's plenty of diversity of skin color and ethnic background in SV. But there's a lot more diversity that exists than the ones the law says you have to respect. And their problems aren't being solved by people in SV, because people in SV don't even know they exist.

Re:Waze Carpool by lotsofpulp on Thursday January 25, 2018 @01:37PM (#16233272)
Assuming you want to make as much money as possible, focusing on the problems of the portion of the population that makes the most money seems most efficient, i.e. educated professionals in urban areas.
Re:Waze Carpool by wu-ikkyu on Thursday January 25, 2018 @11:15AM (#16231879)
>I'm not sure why anyone would need to feel guilty or worry about that fact though

They shouldn't feel guilty, but perhaps they should worry because of the known problems of groupthink.

Re:Waze Carpool by drb91 on Thursday January 25, 2018 @04:22PM (#16234787)
> The simple fact is people primarily like being near people like themselves, culturally or otherwise.

Unless, of course, they don't. :) I can't stand talking shop outside of work. Silicon valley and San Francisco are so full of technologists and associated ancillary professions it's a pretty miserable place to live--they've displaced all the people I'd normally want to be around.

Not that I have much choice on where to work or live! I work in technology, so why would I want to live anywhere else? Just shut up and move to SF already, you'll love it!

Re:Waze Carpool by toephu2 on Thursday January 25, 2018 @04:48PM (#16235010)
Culturally though, people do for the most part. Whites hangout with Whites, Indians with Indians, Chinese with Chinese, etc.. it's not racism, it's human nature.
Re:Waze Carpool by drb91 on Saturday February 03, 2018 @09:57PM (#16301044)
Yea, that is true. But it’s not something you will be happy assuming about other people.

Fwiw I mostly don’t get alone with people that look like me; this mostly ends up with me being quietly alone so i don’t offend anyone.

Re:Waze Carpool by evanlivingston on Thursday January 25, 2018 @02:10PM (#16233586)
I believe the issue that deserves some scrutiny is hinges on on what you say is "...a natural phenomenon."

SV and the bay are magnets for individuals who possess a high concentration of capital, both social and economic. Those forms of wealth allow those individuals to shape the environment and self-select in ways that other groups of individuals don't have access to. I believe this in turn leads to a level of social isolation not experienced by others who are unable to be inside their beautiful apartment on the 4th floor, one uber ride and three keyswipes and two neighborhoods away from the other individuals who can't afford those things. That level of isolation in my opinion can easily lead to a lack of awareness of the lives of other individuals.

The people in little Korea, little Ethiopia etc. may self select based on language and culture but I'd say they're all share a lot more exposure to a similar set of problems than the lion's share of residents in SV. I think what's good about this is that is has the potential to more quickly lead to a larger sense of solidarity with all individuals.

Re:Waze Carpool by dmix on Thursday January 25, 2018 @03:57PM (#16234592)
> Those forms of wealth allow those individuals to shape the environment and self-select in ways that other groups of individuals don't have access to.

Oh please, I just reread Grapes of Wrath and other literature about the Dust Bowl migration to California and it didn't take wealth for some of the poorest Americans to form or shape communities as they came to California. The key was they were hard working and dedicated. All it took was people of similar culture coming together and investing/supporting their own community. Eventually getting their own jobs, land, political support, and assimilating into California culture... eventually becoming locals themselves.

The 'local' people in California were just as hostile to those newcomers, they saw the 'Okies' as 'uneducated and dirty' who didn't belong. Not much different from the way SF activists are to tech workers... except the classes were reversed.

Or the 'carpetbaggers' coming from the Northeast US down into the Southern US following the civil war.

It's not a new phenomenon for newcomers to feel isolation from 'locals' nor for locals to resist change. People always resist change. While it gets justified in many ways by guilt, jealousy, nostalgia, fear of competition, etc, etc. It is not fundamentally about wealth. It has a combination of many issues, but largely has do with things being different.

Reducing every social/economic issue to class, wealth, and power is fraught with issues and requires ignoring plenty of evidence and counter-examples. Much of "new left" ideology and literature is famous for being reductionist in this way. The SF activist's approach to this issue is no different.