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Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by bassman9000 on Monday January 22, 2018 @06:09AM (#16203476)
We should treasure it while it lasts, before PC culture silences him. And before downvoting, recall how many threads regarding Linus abusive behavior (sic) we've had.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by jimktrains2 on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:02AM (#16204023)
Pc culture? What are you talking about? Linus is pc (in that he doesn't go on misogynistic, racist, or similar rants and doesn't denigrate people for their non-technical decisions) , he's just not nice to those that should know better.

While I think you've also been bitten by the "we accept everyone! (who thinks the way we do)" crowd as well, this is not the place or the way to express that frustration.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by pessimizer on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:15AM (#16204083)
Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things. So "PC" becomes equivalent to "lying to make people like you."
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by EpicEng on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:36AM (#16205117)
>Some people think that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things

Not any serious people, so why do we care?

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by jokola on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:13AM (#16205466)
There are plenty of ordinary people that e.g. prefer one religion to other or believe in traditional gender roles. Some of those people believe they should be able to express those opinions in the same way people express opinions about diversity or equality regardless if other people considered those opinions e.g. sexist. I happen to disagree with those people, but I wouldn't consider their opinions less serious.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by EpicEng on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:49PM (#16206804)
So you wouldn't consider an opinion 'less serious' if the opinion is that directness and honesty is identical to saying racist, sexist, and homophobic things? Because that's what we're talking about, and I would absolutely write that off as 100% nonsense. Just because someone believes in something doesn't mean it's not stupid.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by wyager on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:46AM (#16205763)
Because we have to deal with them on a daily basis and they have political power? I’m not sure how you’re defining “not serious”.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by EpicEng on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:50PM (#16206812)
Who are these people? Do you have names? I don't see this at all in people with political power. Who are you 'dealing with on a daily basis'?
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by Ygg2 on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:29AM (#16204159)
The argument goes like this, the acerbic culture that grows around Linus is toxic towards female and (sexual/ethnic) minorities, because such contributor are disinclined to join projects where the lead can get verbally abusive.

From what I've gathered the findings are based on real data.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by theptip on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:29AM (#16204546)
> based on real data

Citation? Sounds interesting.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by Filligree on Monday January 22, 2018 @12:10PM (#16205957)
That's hardly limited to women. It's the same reason I have no intention of ever contributing to the kernel.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by greyfade on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:44PM (#16206759)
Speaking for myself, this is partly why I want to contribute to the kernel.

I tend not to take my own mistakes very seriously unless they come with serious consequences. Having someone I respect tear into me would, I think, force me to take greater care and apply more attention to my work than I already do.

I've heard similar anecdotes from people who have contributed. I even recall a female contributor say something positive about it.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by megous on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:58PM (#16206893)
Then you're needlessly limiting yourself, as you'd very unlikely run into any verbal abuse.

If anything you'd have trouble getting code in because maintainer thinks it would add more complexity than is necessary, or would make his job harder in the future, or after writing and testing the code, you'd find out you should have been doing things differently, etc. These are much more probable ways to get discouraged from contributing kernel code.

There's a high bar to getting code in, and that can be frustrating. But it also keeps the mainline attractive to users and developers, because of ever improving code quality.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by PopsiclePete on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:27PM (#16206612)
I'd be absolutely terrified to submit a patch, ever.

"What the fuck is this? This came from Satan's butt-hole. Kill whoever did this - kill them immediately, here, I'll go and find this asshole who submitted this patch, and do it for you, you lazy ingrates, why do I have to do everything around here?"

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by boomboomsubban on Monday January 22, 2018 @02:26PM (#16207123)
This isn't some lone beginner trying to help improve Linux, this is a billion dollar company with decades of experience trying to cover their own ass. Judging by Linus' thousands of emails on the mailing lists, any reply you got would be polite and helpful.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by Filligree on Monday January 22, 2018 @03:37PM (#16207677)
So, how likely do you think Linus is to look past the fact that I work for Google? It doesn't make me any less of a beginner in the space. :P
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by boomboomsubban on Monday January 22, 2018 @04:38PM (#16208150)
If Google were making you upload the patches to fix some huge problem in every Chromebook, you wouldn't get the beginners treatment. If it was some universal bug fix or optimization I doubt the Google connection would matter.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by madaxe_again on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:17AM (#16204458)
Those people are wrong. Don’t worry about them.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by pdpi on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:15AM (#16204082)
Can we stop repeating this? Assertiveness and assholery are not one and the same. Linus has both in abundance, and we can decry the one without wanting the other to go away.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by crdoconnor on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:35AM (#16204191)
Linus "being an asshole" is what drew attention to this issue. His caustic nature is marketing of a sort.

It's clearly putting additional pressure on Intel. How you feel about that depends on how you feel about them furiously trying to sweep everything under the carpet and hoping nobody notices.

Personally I think his humiliation of Intel here is putting necessary pressure on them. If he couched his terms and tried to be "nice" about this they wouldn't feel nearly the same pressure.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by pdpi on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:36AM (#16205110)
See it from this angle: if Linus wasn't known for flipping his lid all the time, him flipping out _this_ time would be even more impactful. Overuse makes it progressively less remarkable.

I wasn't even saying that his tone on this particular instance was excessive. I was responding to the general accusation that "PC culture will silence him". There's exactly one sentence I have issues with here ("the whole hardware interface is literally mis-designed by morons"). The rest of the email is toeing the line, but manages to be forceful without being outright insulting.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by cmyr on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:00AM (#16205353)
Adding another perspective: as someone who follows kernel news very casually, it's pretty near impossible for me to determine which instances of "Linus curses something/someone out" are related to actual Serious Things Deserving My Attention. There's a bit of boy-who-cried-wolf to the whole thing.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by crdoconnor on Monday January 22, 2018 @12:17PM (#16206031)
>See it from this angle: if Linus wasn't known for flipping his lid all the time, him flipping out _this_ time would be even more impactful. Overuse makes it progressively less remarkable.

I don't. This is pretty much part of his brand. He's developed a reputation for flipping his lid and lambasting people who have always deserved it using entertainingly colorful language. That's why these rants still get to the top of HN.

>I was responding to the general accusation that "PC culture will silence him".

I mean, that seems to be what you're trying to do by demanding that he water his language down to something that has minimal emotional impact.

It's not like using the word morons is particularly offensive, either - except to the people who actually deserved it (Intel).

>There's exactly one sentence I have issues with here ("the whole hardware interface is literally mis-designed by morons").

Which is the sentence that got this rant on hacker news, which attracted all the attention which is necessary in order to put pressure on Intel to fix their shit.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by pdpi on Monday January 22, 2018 @12:44PM (#16206260)
> Which is the sentence that got this rant on hacker news

And yet the title of the submission is "Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons". That's a good suggestion that the moron quote is not "what got this rant on hacker news". Perhaps it's on hacker news not because the form is inflammatory, but because the content is insightful.

Maybe—just maybe—the fact that the Linux project lead publicly accused Intel of not having their shit together is newsworthy and would end up on the front page of Hacker News no matter what tone it was written in, because that is newsworthy enough in and of itself.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by justaaron on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:34PM (#16206668)
spooks keeping their back door open? a la Dual_EC_DRBG and RSA etc...
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by iagovar on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:11AM (#16205450)
And here you have it, in the front page of HN
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by hashkb on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:52AM (#16204290)
If you can't claim "PC has a chilling effect" without being asked to stop claiming it, the case is closed.
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by pdpi on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:30AM (#16205057)
That's insane. That's effectively saying that we shouldn't be critical of other people because criticism has a chilling effect (unless you're Linus, in which case it's A-OK to be both critical and an asshole about it).
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by nielsabel on Monday January 22, 2018 @06:29AM (#16203557)
> before PC culture silences him

Damn you, Wintel!

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by justaaron on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:34PM (#16206673)
finally someone made the reference :D
Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by sametmax on Monday January 22, 2018 @06:25AM (#16203538)
Well, if the Linux Kernel would have been a democracy, it would not have the aspect it has today.

It's a sad thing to say about the state of the human specie.

Re:Linus Torvalds: “Somebody is pushing complete garbage for... by hammock on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:51AM (#16203959)
Who said anything about democracy? The whole approach of private enterprise is to build up barriers (competitive advantage) AGAINST the prevailing tide. That's how positive change (differentiated goods, wealth) is created.

The same can be said of free speech.