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Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by teeray on Saturday January 20, 2018 @09:36PM (#16196588)
Can anyone recommend an intermediate to advanced C book? I feel like most C material I've been exposed to in the past lacks what a modern C project should have when it comes to best practices, code organization, build tools (should I use make for this, cmake, where does autotools fit? what about clang vs gcc?), linters (valgrind?), testing, etc. I recognize that much of this falls outside of C, but all of these tools seem like things C projects routinely grapple with.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by bello on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:16PM (#16196824)
I really enjoyed "Deep C Secrets" as an intermediate C book:

Expert C Programming: Deep C Secrets https://www.amazon.com/dp/0131774298/

A little dated, still lots of relevant knowledge though.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by geokon on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:21AM (#16198353)
What I liked about this book is that it's very upfront about how messed up C is. I read about half of it and it made me never want to write any C ever again.

An especially memorable part for me was how it took 3 pages of language lawyering to explain why this doesn't compile:

    foo(const char **p) { }

    main(int argc, char **argv)
    {
    foo(argv);
    }
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by int_19h on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:21PM (#16201173)
I don't see this as a good example of "how messed up C is". It doesn't compile because you're violating const correctness, and any other language with similarly sound correctness requirements would flag it in a similar way. If anything, this is one of those rare cases where C chooses correctness over convenience.

It takes quite a bit to explain because the "common sense" is that if one level of pointer indirection allows you to pass non-const where const is expected, then two levels shouldn't be any different. But common sense is wrong, and the compiler is right. And it doesn't require any language lawyering, either - all you need to do is slightly tweak the example to show why exactly it is unsafe.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by rcxdude on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:01AM (#16203737)
A better example of messed up in that example is how it's not a compile-time error (but is very nasty undefined behavior) for the function without an explicit return type (so defaulting to int) to end without returning anything.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by int_19h on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:41AM (#16211527)
Compilers can - and, indeed, do - diagnose UB as compile time errors, or at least warnings (which you can then turn into errors if you want) all the time.

Now, it is not undefined behavior for the function to not return anything despite having a return type. It is UB for the caller to try to use the returned value, but in this case it's not actually used.

The implicit int feature is really very much deprecated (in fact, it was already removed in C99, almost 20 years ago!). If, for some mysterious reason, you're trying to compile code like that, it's probably very old code dating to before C was an ANSI standard, and void return type was a thing. In such code, it would be pretty common for functions to not return anything, because semantically they don't - it was just a quirk of the language that there was no notion to express a non-value-returning function back then, and so returning an (undefined) int became idiomatic. In C89, this entire behavior was retained largely because backwards compatibility was necessary. C99 finally fixed it.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by sifoo on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:22PM (#16196840)
One of my all time C favorites.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by fipar on Saturday January 20, 2018 @09:55PM (#16196646)
I really liked this one: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920033677.do (21st century C, in case the link is wrong as I’m on my phone now)
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by a3n on Saturday January 20, 2018 @10:51PM (#16196784)
Second.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by earenndil on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:38AM (#16197127)
To answer your questions:

* Clang vs gcc: doesn't really matter. Clang has slightly better compile times. GCC has really advanced but in some cases still has inferior warning/error messages. Best practice is not to really use GNU c features unless you want to. If you do want to, decide if you want to just use the subset supported by clang or the full shabang from gcc. Beyond that: if you want to support both, test on both before release and do release builds using whichever produces faster or smaller (choose whichever metric you prefer) binaries.

* Build systems: plain old make is sufficient in most cases. I would recommend autoconf over cmake just because it's significantly simpler, although cmake has better cross-platform support (it can generate visual studio build files, for instance). I wouldn't use something outside of make, cmake, or autoconf, even if it seems like it's better in every way than those, because it probably isn't, and even if it is, you lose out on the battle-tested, available-everywhere, and widely-used nature of the above build systems. I shouldn't have to install a build system to build your program, and if I do, I should be able to use that build system to build a significant of other programs too.

* Linting: not really necessary IME. Aim for no compiler warnings, though.

* Yes, use valgrind. Anything it complains about, fix. Uninitialized values and out-of-bounds memory accesses are significantly more important and worrisome than memory leaks (because they represent potential attack vectors), but still, it won't complain about something unless it's actually something that should be complained about.

* Testing: like the other commenter said, just a little bit of macro magic and you're golden.

* Code organization: headers in include/, source files in src/. You can separate src/ into subdirectories if your project grows to sufficient complexity that the source files become difficult to wrangle. Separating the headers into separate directories is probably not necessary, however.

* Not directly c-related, but pick a SANE code style and stick to it.

* Debugging: make a separate target that compiles in debug symbols and disables optimizations, and use gdb (or lldb) on it. You don't need much to get started: 99% of the time, all I do is "break main", "run" ("r" for short), "backtrace" ("bt" for short), "frame <number>" (to switch between stack frames), and "print <variable>" ("p <variable>" for short); it's taken me quite far.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by billforsternz on Sunday January 21, 2018 @05:52AM (#16197583)
> Uninitialized values and out-of-bounds memory accesses are significantly more important and worrisome than memory leaks (because they represent potential attack vectors)

I agree with your conclusion but not your reasoning. Attack vectors are way down the list of reasons why uninitialised values and out of bounds memory accesses are higher priority. They're higher priority because they will likely (maybe definitely) crash your program or (even worse) cause it to fail in a frustratingly indeterminate manner. You should be so lucky that your program becomes significant enough to be targetted by "attackers".

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by yeukhon on Sunday January 21, 2018 @06:24AM (#16197665)
Agree. One such simple example is a ListNode (Linked List). In C/C++ implementation, if we don’t explicitly declare

    node.next = null
It can have a garage unless you assigned a value.

This can be hard to debug in production.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by spatulon on Sunday January 21, 2018 @07:48AM (#16197870)
I like your thinking regarding using simpler build tools. I took this to the extreme and now my build tool for personal C/C++ projects is just a file called build.sh/build.bat. That does little more than:

    gcc main.c
main.c #includes any other .c files that are needed (the term for this appears to be a 'unity build'). Compiling this way is /really/ fast, which is why it's okay to use a dumb build script that always recompiles everything.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by earenndil on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:32PM (#16199519)
I would tbh recommend make (bsd make is a wider-supported subset of gnu make) over a shell script, because it can automatically detect which source files need to be rebuilt and which can be kept from previous builds, greatly reducing compile times. Also, it supports parallel builds, although this one is relatively easy with a shellscript.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by int_19h on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:25PM (#16201189)
If the sole purpose is to track which files changed, then redo is arguably a simpler solution to this problem - you don't need to learn a new language either (and its funky rules like the tab/space difference), just shell scripts with a couple new commands.

http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/redo-sh.html

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by senorsmile on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:32PM (#16201227)
I've never seen this before... I shall have to try it out on a C project I'm starting. Thanks!
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by keldaris on Sunday January 21, 2018 @09:55AM (#16198241)
I do exactly the same thing whenever I write C/C++. Genuinely large projects aside, I see no compelling reason to waste your time with build systems. This approach is simple, easy to maintain and lets you get on with writing actual code.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by ramzyo on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:55AM (#16198495)
Out of curiosity, why not use make for something so simple instead of a Shell script?
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by keldaris on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:05AM (#16204379)
Because I don't see any value from using it. It's not easier to read or write, it doesn't force you to keep it sane and simple like a bash/cmd script generally would, and it's just another dependency I don't really need. If I take a minimalistic approach to build systems, I prefer to go all the way.

Also, although this is merely a personal quirk that shouldn't persuade anyone else, I've seen enough horrific, unreadable make files to instinctively dislike them by now.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by spatulon on Sunday January 21, 2018 @12:32PM (#16198942)
In my mind, shell scripts are simpler. I have no reason to need the extra complexity that make brings.

Also, I do a lot of programming on Windows, where GNU make would be another dependency to install. (Also, in my experience, make is slow on Windows, since they have to emulate fork()). I guess I could use Microsoft nmake, since I assume it's still installed along with Visual Studio, but again, batch files are simpler.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by int_19h on Sunday January 21, 2018 @08:26PM (#16201198)
Take a look at this: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/redo-sh.html

And for GNU tools on Windows, I would heavily recommend MSYS2 these days - having Pacman as the package manager is very nice, and there are already a lot of packages there.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by grawprog on Sunday January 21, 2018 @11:56AM (#16198744)
My thoughts are a shell is usually installed by default. Make may not be. This is only a guess. I'm not sure myself.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by ramzyo on Sunday January 21, 2018 @10:55AM (#16198492)
Out of curiosity, why did you not choose make to do this?
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by omilu on Sunday January 21, 2018 @12:58PM (#16199094)
did you watch handmade hero? he advocates the same
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by spatulon on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:30PM (#16199243)
Haha, yes. Casey has been quite a big influence on me re-finding enjoyment in programming that I thought I'd lost.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by electricslpnsld on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:57AM (#16197161)
> Clang vs gcc: doesn't really matter.

Clang seems to have better sanitizer support, which can be lighter weight initial passes before running valgrind.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by Rondom on Sunday January 21, 2018 @07:39AM (#16197847)
What exactly is better wrt. to sanitizers with Clang?
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by frankzinger on Sunday January 21, 2018 @11:23PM (#16201903)
I would also like to know. I have been using the latest versions of both clang and gcc and have not noticed any differences.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by thdn on Saturday January 20, 2018 @10:39PM (#16196758)
Take a look at this one, you wont regret http://icube-icps.unistra.fr/img_auth.php/d/db/ModernC.pdf
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by federicoponzi on Sunday January 21, 2018 @05:34AM (#16197532)
Hey, thanks a lot! Went through some pages around, and looks like a very informative book. Is there a printed version?
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by rjammala on Saturday January 20, 2018 @10:23PM (#16196722)
One of the best books: Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective (3rd Edition)
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by donkey-hotei on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:00PM (#16196795)
I second this. Seriously the best textbook on systems programming I've worked through especially when accompanied with the famous CMU labs[0]. Anyone who works thoroughly through this book can become a master systems programmer.

[0]: http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/labs.html

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by FourSigma on Sunday January 21, 2018 @12:35AM (#16197007)
I am currently going through this book. Any advice on how to extract the most value out of it?
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by donkey-hotei on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:04AM (#16197171)
Sure! I recommend sitting with the book, a pen, and a notebook at a cafe or wherever you like and write solutions to the practice problems you see sprinkled in each chapter as you read every single word. Then choose a few of the homework problems and do those, some will require a computer. Most of all, work through the labs and don't cheat yourself by looking at other (probably not very good) solutions posted online! Solving the labs with the textbook and TLPI[0] as a reference is how I got the most out of the course. A list of the assignments, as they're done at CMU, is posted below[1]. Good luck!

[0]: http://www.man7.org/tlpi/ [1]: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~213/assignments.html

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by FourSigma on Sunday January 21, 2018 @11:04AM (#16198525)
Awesome! Thank you for the insight!
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by jimmahoney on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:10AM (#16197177)
Yes - I use this and the CMU labs for an undergrad course, and it's excellent.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by halayli on Sunday January 21, 2018 @07:52AM (#16197878)
One of the most challenging exercises in any language is to learn how to organize your code and modularize it at a large scale. I recommend reading Postgres's source code. But don't wander aimlessly, set a goal. For example, figure out how an sql select query is parsed and processed, how types are deduced, etc and learn the programming patterns applied as you go through.

I often recommend postgres because it's highly commented, and easy to understand.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by crispinb on Saturday January 20, 2018 @09:54PM (#16196642)
You could take a look at Ben Klemens’ 21st Century C from O’Reilly. It covers that precise territory.

I can’t recommend it as I haven’t read it yet — it has been on my eyes-bigger-than-my-time-and-energy book pile for a couple of years.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by monaghanboy on Saturday January 20, 2018 @10:08PM (#16196684)
I would recommend https://www.amazon.com/C-Programming-Modern-Approach-2nd/dp/.... There's specifically a section on organizing large projects IIRC.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by fellellor on Sunday January 21, 2018 @01:02AM (#16197057)
This is a very thorough, detailed book on the topic. It's pretty awesome.
Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by pksadiq on Sunday January 21, 2018 @11:04AM (#16198523)
I would recommend C: A Reference Manual (by Samuel P. Harbison and Guy L. Steele Jr.) along with K&R The C programming language.

C has lots of edges where it's easy for a beginner to make mistakes. Say for example the minimal range of a char is -127 to 127 (yes, C cares 1's complement machines) or 0 to 255. Not knowing this may result in a code working in one machine while broken on others. So learning the standard is a must, especially, the undefined behaviors.

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by leoc on Sunday January 21, 2018 @09:01AM (#16198059)
I'm not claiming any C ability myself, but in addition to things which have already been mentioned: the old Steve Summit comp.lang.c C FAQ http://c-faq.com/ was only updated up to 2005 but is still hard to ignore.

For the Linux C interface there's https://nostarch.com/tlpi and http://www.apuebook.com/apue3e.html / http://www.unpbook.com/ , all old to different degrees. http://www.danlj.org/lad/ was great but even the second edition http://www.worldcat.org/title/linux-application-development-... is probably out of date by now. ( https://9p.io/cm/cs/upe/index.html is most certainly out of date, but more than that it's almost an anti-C-interface book by comparison to the C-API-centric view of Unix which has become prevalent since, in some part due to the popularity of K&R... https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bwk/tpop.webpage/ and http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/taoup/ are in the same "anti-C-book" vein.)

Re:Brushing up on operating systems and C programming by sifoo on Saturday January 20, 2018 @11:31PM (#16196862)
As far as books go; K&R contains a lot of wisdom despite it's apparent simplicity; and the language hasn't really changed that much since last edition. But to answer some of your questions:

CMake is by far the most convenient build tool I've come across for C so far, the link below will give you an idea of how it looks. I find linters mostly a waste of time , but I run all my tests through valgrind before committing; I don't miss programming in C without valgrind at all; it's also an excellent profiler in combination with KCacheGrind. For testing, simple functions and bit of macro magic on top goes pretty far; C programmers tend to value simplicity, you won't find that many epic unit testing adventure frameworks out there. clang or gcc doesn't really matter, I prefer clang's error messages; and both support GNU extensions, which solve most of the boring problems with coding in C.

https://github.com/basic-gongfu/cixl/blob/master/CMakeLists....