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Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by bufferoverflow on Saturday January 20, 2018 @04:02PM (#16195414)
Motion-to-photon latency isn't mentioned. It's basically the most important characteristic of a good VR set. That's why all smartphone-based VR solutions suck and make you sick.

Carmack has long lectures about that issue.

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by mncharity on Saturday January 20, 2018 @04:49PM (#16195594)
> Motion-to-photon latency [...] most important [...] sick.

Yes and no. And the "no" seems underappreciated.

I normally run my Vive and Lenovo WMR at 30 fps on an old laptop with Intel integrated graphics. So why hasn't it made people sick? Camera passthrough AR helps. Likely the "comfort mode"-like tunnel-vision effect of not doing barrel or chromatic aberration correction. Perhaps not doing predictive tracking, so lag but no judder. Maybe "visible out the corner of your eye" framing. Maybe something else.

Most VR reporting starts from an assumption of games. Games, games, always games. So "you are there" immersion, with no avoidable visible artifacts, no AR, etc. So 90 fps, constant latency, high GPU and HMD bandwidth demands. But if you don't care about games, if you just want a desktop replacement/alternative... the design constraint space looks very different.

But yes, their focus seems Unity and games.

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by clarry on Monday January 22, 2018 @12:19PM (#16206049)
I'm looking for something that could replace big desktop monitors and annoyingly unportable laptops when I'm on the go. A HMD (or VR headset) could fit the bill. But I want to use it as a generic display device (that e.g. presents as a large canvas floating in space) rather than a VR-specific gaming or movie gimmick. Unfortunately nearly all the discussion I find online is about gaming. So I have no idea what to expect if I were to buy a headset and plug it into my laptop running linux with intel graphics..

It sounds like you might know something about the desktop experience. Do you have any thoughts, or useful links?

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by mncharity on Monday January 22, 2018 @01:51PM (#16206830)
> looking for something that could replace big desktop monitors and annoyingly unportable laptops

Tl;dr: wait for Xmas.

A current design point: gaming laptop; Windows; SteamVR; a virtual desktop like http://bigscreenvr.com/ ; HDMI dummies as mentioned by @sgtmas2006, so Windows thinks it has more monitors; RDP/VNC/etc to a linux VM. All off the shelf.

But gaming laptops are likely "annoyingly unportable laptops". If you can segregate when you want portable vs monitors, something like a Lenovo X1 Carbon is portable, and has Thunderbolt 3, so you can plug in a rather less portable external gpu enclosure.

Current HMD resolution is still quite low. If you use big desktop monitors for their resolution (eg, lots of text), rather than merely their size (eg, vision impairment), that's a problem. If the big monitors are full of little terminal windows (eg, ops), I saw a report of someone being happy.

https://varjo.com/ , despite its website, appears on track[1] to release a much higher resolution HMD this year. For only "under $10k". With that, you could just render your big monitors. Current software support is unclear.

So a takeaway could be "wait for Xmas 2018".

> what to expect if I were to buy a headset and plug it into my laptop running linux

The HMD shows up as a normal monitor. (In future, that may require telling `xrandr` "yes, I know it's an HMD, just treat it as a normal monitor please".) From there, it's like google cardboard. There's a border region you can't see, and each eye gets half the screen. If you close one eye, you can just drag/open windows and use them normally. I open a full-screen browser window, and render stereo for 3D. The pixels are magnified, and can easily be seen individually.

As for tracking and controllers... attention to linux largely evaporated when VR transitioned from niche to chasing the Windows gaming market. I know of nothing usable with Windows MR HMDs. (There was/is? a project to unpack their odd camera format, and then one might run say ORB-SLAM2 for tracking, but that's all diy). And doesn't gget you Windows MR controllers. For Vive, there's SteamVR and WebVR, but I believe both still require major setup effort, with buggy results. http://idav.ucdavis.edu/~okreylos/ResDev/Vrui/ exists. As do low-level Vive device drivers.

> ... with intel graphics

Ah, that is very not mainstream. I know of only my own stack[2] easily available. And that's for Vive tracking. Tracking Windows MR HMDs then requires taping on a Vive controller, or diy software dev.

So unless your usage patterns happen to mesh nicely with rather severe current tech constraints... using VR to replace big monitors isn't quite ripe yet. Maybe by Xmas. But once that threshold is passed, I expect a rapid and large impact.

[1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/12102/varjo-announces-shippin... [2] https://github.com/mncharity/node-webvr-alt-stack

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by clarry on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @07:38AM (#16213085)
Thanks for all the info! :)
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by dsnuh on Saturday January 20, 2018 @04:09PM (#16195442)
A 16 year old and her classmates built this. I'm sure your comment has technical merit, but man, give these kids some props!
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by bufferoverflow on Saturday January 20, 2018 @04:18PM (#16195477)
I'm not saying it's not a cool achievement, but they are comparing their product with the existing products. I would like to know how it stacks up. Maybe it's even better, who knows.
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by dsnuh on Saturday January 20, 2018 @06:55PM (#16196118)
Yeah, but you're also still not saying it _is_ a cool achievement. It is. Period.

Why not submit an issue or get involved with the project? It seems like you have expertise in the area that they would appreciate.

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by hfourm on Saturday January 20, 2018 @08:45PM (#16196452)
His comment was informative, yours argumentative.

I'm sure everyone agrees this is a big achievement for these students, move along.

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by NicoJuicy on Sunday January 21, 2018 @05:52AM (#16197585)
What argument is this?

Not everyone has the time to volunteer and not every comment has to say it is a cool project.

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by mkempe on Saturday January 20, 2018 @04:30PM (#16195526)
Agree with props! nit: Maxime is a boy's name, so his mates.
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by maxime-coutte on Saturday January 20, 2018 @05:09PM (#16195682)
Are you sure that I'm a boy? ;)
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by dsnuh on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:14PM (#16199461)
My apologies if I offended, I'm not sure where I got the impression, I thought it was mentioned somewhere.
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by mkempe on Saturday January 20, 2018 @05:23PM (#16195750)
en français on peut rester garçon toute le vie, non? en tout cas quand on parle entre copains.
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by maxime-coutte on Saturday January 20, 2018 @06:23PM (#16195987)
Ce que je voulais dire, c'est es-tu sure que je ne suis pas une fille ?
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by mkempe on Sunday January 21, 2018 @02:39AM (#16197220)
Bien sûr, le nom, la photo, sans la moindre hésitation...

Allez, développez votre création et votre histoire à long terme, c'est ça qui compte!

Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by lucasverra on Sunday January 21, 2018 @07:19AM (#16197803)
I've known a baby girl named Maxime (in France) Badass name for a girl.
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by loulouxiv on Saturday January 20, 2018 @06:07PM (#16195938)
What in a smartphone based VR solution would give to it an inherently slow Motion to photon latency ? The communication between CPU and motion capture ? The 3d rendering ?
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by sitkack on Saturday January 20, 2018 @08:46PM (#16196455)
Software stack, buffers, buffers, buffers, software stack.
Re:Relativ – A VR headset that you can build yourself for $100 by DiThi on Saturday January 20, 2018 @04:59PM (#16195644)
> That's why all smartphone-based VR solutions suck and make you sick.

Well, GearVR and Daydream suck but at least don't make you sick if you stay sit and avoid apps with artificial movement.