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Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by mbesto on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @12:24AM (#16103830)
Good analysis as always from Matt Levine:

I am always skeptical that stories like this are actually about insider trading, just because it would be too dumb and obvious for Krzanich to dump his stock just before announcing bad news. Also: The news doesn't seem to have been that bad for Intel's stock, and in fact Krzanich's sales last year were mostly at prices below yesterday's close. As a diabolical plan it seems pretty unimpressive.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-05/citi-forg...

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by saguro on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @12:43AM (#16103897)
> The news doesn't seem to have been that bad for Intel's stock

That's a red herring. Krzanich had no idea how badly the news would impact the stock. He may have well overestimated it in his mind and chose to sell. Just because he didn't make huge gains from the possible insider trading, doesn't preclude the possibility of insider trading occurring.

So the whole argument here is:

1) Krzanich couldn't be possibly stupid enough to do this.

2) He didn't make a ton of money so it's a stupid plan, he could't possibly be stupid enough to do this.

Weak.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by ckastner on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:27AM (#16105012)
> Krzanich couldn't be possibly stupid enough to do this.

Seeing as he made to the the role of CEO of Intel Corp., I find that to be a very convincing argument.

I have to concede that there's precedent even for CEOs of huge corporations to be that stupid and/or criminal, most notably https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kozlowski.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by saguro on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:55AM (#16105119)
The plea of stupidity in high profile insider trading cases is a smoke screen - that was my point.

Highly successful executives engage in insider trading quite frequently (see link). When they do, they take a calculated risk. You can be quite sure that none of them are stupid in any sense of the word. They take a measured risk and some succeed and some fail, depending on luck, skill, ambitions, and how big/rich they already are. From what little I know, doing it in a an open manner is actually the best best way to go about insider trading. If you attempt to skirt around it by doing anything shady like having friends/relatives execute the trades for you, the evidence is undeniable once discovered. If you go about it 'openly' and instead rely on blurry interpretation or your ability to plead ignorance or put the timeline into question, it's a lot harder to nail you.

There are many cases of brazen broad-daylight insider trading, such as Donald Trump right now. Only the ones that end in successful legal action go on to be considered stupid. Even when they do get caught, a lot of the time the penalties are relatively lax, like suspended or weekend sentences for first time offenders.

So no, just because he is successful as an executive at a major corporation doesn't at all make it 'stupid' for him to engage in insider trading. That line of reasoning is a diversion from the facts of the case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_SEC_enforcement_...

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by rando444 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @09:53AM (#16106525)
How is that a convincing argument?

You honestly believe that Intel as a company kept all information about these serious vulnerabilities from the CEO for 5+ months? And nobody got fired for this?

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by bobdole1234 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @10:51AM (#16107014)
Intel has a never ending parade of security related bugs that get fixed and nobody cares.

This isn't meaningfully likely to affect any of the contracts that Intel has with it's major customers, and it's not like competition is going to spring forth in a meaningful way because of this bug.

It's not like he sold his stock while the company was secretly on fire and about to collapse.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by rando444 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @11:57AM (#16107573)
It's not just about security. These bugs are going to impact customers' performance by up to 30% or more and that can't be fixed. This is a huge deal for cloud providers' revenue.

The class action lawsuits are only just being filed within the past few days.

If you already know the outcome of these lawsuits, you should probably contact the lawyers and judges to let them know. /s

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by bobdole1234 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @07:50PM (#16111651)
Well, since Google knew about this bug across the boundaries of a few quarterly reports so far, and hasn't signaled radical departures in their operational expenses, and has specifically said the impact on them was smaller than many expected [1]... I'd say we know the outcome already.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/4/16851132/meltdown-spectre-...

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by rando444 on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @05:02AM (#16113766)
Knowing about the bug != having all of their systems patched.

Also, I shouldn't have to point this out, but not everyone runs the same systems in the same fashion.

Lastly not only has everyone not patched their systems yet, but patches for many people don't even exist at this point:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/08/intel-ces/

I'm not trying to say it's going to be the worst case scenario, but I am saying it's extremely foolish to pretend that you can predict anything until people actually start patching their systems.

Time will tell, and it's best in every scenario to refrain from making gigantic blanket assumptions based on almost no data points.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by bobdole1234 on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @03:55PM (#16119000)
Google said they've finished patching, and it was all done before the bug became public.

That means the people who have the best information about mitigating this issue have a fix that apparently has minimal performance impacts on their cloud workloads, and I suspect their cloud customer SLO's would be taking a shitkicking if that weren't actually true.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @04:06PM (#16119068)
> That means the people who have the best information about mitigating this issue have a fix that apparently has minimal performance impacts on their cloud workloads

Could Google not just have found a mitigation with non-negligible performance impact, and made a behind the scenes change to the actual hardware resources assigned at each vCPU level to mask the average impact, eating the cost in the short term (while evening it out in the long term by delaying price decreases they would otherwise implement)?

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by bobdole1234 on Wednesday January 10, 2018 @10:42PM (#16121259)
More likely, Google made their own mitigations, that they're keeping for their own competitive advantage.

They've had a lot more time with the problem than anyone else has, and billions of dollars to gain by solving it better than anyone else.

If they had a 15-30% loss of performance in their 3+GW of infrastructure, it would almost certainly cause a significant dip in their quarterly results, and they would want to warn the markets about that well in advance to soften the blow.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by bobdole1234 on Thursday January 11, 2018 @10:28PM (#16130180)
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by sokoloff on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:29AM (#16105960)
Kozlowski is surely guilty of state sales tax evasion and seems to fit the pattern of did it "because 'Screw the state!' and I think I can get away with it".

Most of the rest of his story seems more like sour grapes than any criminal conduct to the detriment of Tyco investors.

Peter Chang is probably a better model for insider trading criminal CEO (as opposed to merely CEO criminal).

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by noobermin on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:53AM (#16105444)
It could have a lot to do with CEO's doing all sorts of similar things while getting away scott-free.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by fortythirteen on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @09:17AM (#16106279)
Never underestimate anyone's ability to freak out and be a selfish dumbass.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by baddox on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:37AM (#16104092)
Can’t you attribute criminal intent to any action if you’re willing to assume limitless ignorance?
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by rando444 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:34AM (#16104778)
Should all criminals be able get away with crimes by claiming unbelievable levels of ignorance?
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by avs733 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:28AM (#16105955)
only white collar ones and Attorneys General.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by lordfoom on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:27AM (#16105011)
No?
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by volgo on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:11AM (#16103991)
The law doesn't care how stupid your plan was. You could plan a theft in the middle of the day stealing $5 and still be a crime

Insider trading is trading with the knowledge of privileged information not available to public investors. If he did it, it's a crime. Doesn't matter if he made $50 million or $5.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by meritt on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:24AM (#16104040)
https://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&C...

Their CEO has a well-documented six-year history of acquiring and disposing INTC stock. As the CEO, he implicitly always has access to privileged information. How exactly does the SEC determine the legality of a specific trade?

I'm not trying to be flip here, I don't really have an opinion on the matter. It just seems that when the CEO is allowed to apparently buy/sell as they please, and not on a predetermined announced-in-advance plan, you could argue that every single trade was illegal insider trading.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by crdoconnor on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:47AM (#16104834)
When it was the Qwest CEO the legality appears to have been determined by his lack of cooperation with the NSA:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-story-of-joseph-nacchio-a...

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by friendzis on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @09:10AM (#16106231)
Another side of the same coin would be that since CEO "implicitly always has access to privileged information", it is up to trader to prove legality of specific trade. Of course this is against innocent unless proven otherwise dogma, but still perfectly valid different side of the coin.

Which I find amusing. This is just one of the many places where legality of an action greatly depends on consensus and established practices, which can change overnight. For example court ruling based on implicitness of access to privileged information would effectively eliminate high ranking officers from trading altogether.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by URSpider94 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @03:08AM (#16104410)
Most corporations have special departments in place to “pre-clear” executive trades. He almost certainly has a pre-clearance opinion letter on file authorizing him to proceed.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by T2_t2 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @03:00AM (#16104378)
If he sells shares the day they vest, year after year, the only question then is about volume. Did he sell a larger volume than usual?

That's a VERY different question to a binary "is it insider trading?"

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by URSpider94 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @03:06AM (#16104405)
Nope, that’s not necessarily true. The test is whether he, or any other actor, gave the order to sell while in possession of material information.

It’s possible to put an advance order in place to sell shares on a plan, which clears the issue because that decision is made in advance.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by aeorgnoieang on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @10:32AM (#16106842)
> The test is whether he, or any other actor, gave the order to sell while in possession of material information.

Wouldn't that reasonably make any sale, at any time, illegal?

Or, alternately, when would a CEO not possess (non-public) material information?

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by T2_t2 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @05:55AM (#16105121)
I posted this, but I have no idea how to interpret it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16104426 - the numbers make no sense to me.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by pathseeker on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:07AM (#16104660)
>It’s possible to put an advance order in place to sell shares on a plan, which clears the issue because that decision is made in advance.

That's what he did, no?

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by josefx on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:34AM (#16104777)
He broke his pattern last year by changing the orders in october. At a time intel was already aware of Meltdown and with a puplication date for the vulnerability set in January. Wikipedia states that the issue had been shared with manufacturers in July, a month after he normally issues his orders mentioned by the article.

Edit: The date on the last part is wrong, which doesn't change the fact that he changed his orders in the time between internal and public disclosure of Meltdown. I misread the article, in 2017 he issued his orders in February not June (2015).

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by sudhirj on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:26AM (#16104740)
Only time, not number. The schedule allows for a sale on pre determined days, and on the day in question, after he had the news, he sold every share he legally could - way more than he usually did on the scheduled days.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by baddox on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @01:39AM (#16104096)
Insiders are still allowed to trade, they’re just not allowed to trade on the insider knowledge.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by tc313 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:21AM (#16105260)
It has to be material inside informtion in order to be considered insider trading. He can argue that the small dip in the stock price after the news was released is evidence that the information was not material.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by rando444 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @04:31AM (#16104769)
I was originally defending this logic.. I've since changed my mind.

Two major points

(1) Intel was informed in June. His stock sale was planned in October and executed in November.

You'd have to believe that somehow the CEO was not informed about this vulnerability during this huge time period.

(2) This wasn't a normal executive stock sale. He dumped all of his shares other than the required minimum holdings. The vulnerabilities aside, this just looks bad in general.

I'll give you that this plan seems pretty unimpressive. I just have a very hard time buying the idea that Intel kept him in the dark all those months and that him dumping all of the stock he possibly could is some sort of coincidence.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by sseveran on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @10:57AM (#16107063)
It does not have to be related to this. INTC is at an 18 year high. They also crushed their Q3 earnings. Maybe this is a sign that there will be less crushing of their Q4 earnings.

Technically this was a normal executive sale. He is holding the required shares and is the second largest inside shareholder after Andy Bryant, the chairman. In general INTC executives own very little stock. I have been somewhat bearish on INTC for a variety of reasons and now I will add what appears to be the lack of insider ownership to that list.

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/INTC/holders?p=INTC

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by rando444 on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @12:12PM (#16107717)
Doesn't have to be related.. but do you honestly think that the employees at Intel would have kept such alarming information from reaching management for 5+ months?

To reach that scenario you'd have to have engineers lying to their bosses about what they're working on, or managers hiding information from executives.

It's possible, but I don't buy it.

Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by sseveran on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @02:03PM (#16108765)
Oh I am sure he knew. But just because he knew does not mean it will insider trading.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by Waterluvian on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @08:02AM (#16105829)
Maybe it's not stupidity, it's a calculated risk. That even with an SEC investigation he feels confident he will come out with more. There's also greed panic: "most of my wealth may quite possibly vanish when the story lands. I need to get it out and fight them from clawing it back."
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by jumpkickhit on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @12:53AM (#16103931)
I think stupid fits the definition of insider trading.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by philipodonnell on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @09:25AM (#16106332)
I don't always agree with Levine, but his daily emails are pretty good reads. Good mix of current events and cut-through-the-hype style.
Re:Intel CEO’s Stock Sales May Warrant SEC Examination by bitcharmer on Tuesday January 09, 2018 @06:59AM (#16105478)
I am not skeptical at all. Why? Because they always get away with it. It's not stupidity, just cheekiness and arrogance.