News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by cjsuk on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:43PM (#16092260)
It only takes one bit wrong to fuck your file system.
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by leonroy on Sunday January 07, 2018 @06:59PM (#16093585)
From what I understand (very roughly) with ZFS or BTRFS at least it takes one flipped bit in the particular block of memory which has just been successfully checksummed and 'approved' by the filesystem as valid for a write operation. Those are quite a few hoops to jump through so let's not head towards melodrama just yet.
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by cjsuk on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:09AM (#16095352)
That’s fine but most of us are running on NTFS, HFS+ or ext4 where it matters.

And then there’s the same problem with MLC SSDs which are just arrays of capacitors encoding that state as different charge potentials. As a former EE, capacitors leak regardless of implementation.

Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by pbalau on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:54PM (#16092323)
In 20+ years that bit eluded me...
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by baq on Sunday January 07, 2018 @03:09PM (#16092397)
dram cells used to be bigger.
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by cjsuk on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:17AM (#16095380)
Yes. Exactly.

Also SSDs scare me more. MLC disks have so many states stored in a capacitor that is trusted not to leak over the lifetime of the device. All it takes is a few electrons to go walkies and it’s game over.

Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by cjsuk on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:05AM (#16095343)
As far as you know.
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by thomastjeffery on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:53PM (#16092319)
You make it sound like filesystems are so vulnerable. They aren't.

The chances of memory failure ruining data are extremely slim; lower than for hardware failure. If you care about your data, back it up.

Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by burntwater on Sunday January 07, 2018 @04:01PM (#16092681)
Backups don't do anything if the original material contains the flipped bits.
Re:Putting Apple’s iMac Pro Through the Paces by cjsuk on Monday January 08, 2018 @03:08AM (#16095349)
I ran a lab notebook in word for a number of years and the document got fried by a filesystem error. The backup was toasted as well. This was corruption which broke the stage machine or parser in word which acted as a damage amplification.

As for the source of the error, we can only speculate but the possibility of a flipped bit is higher than you think.

Try running memtest86 on a PC without ECC for a week. You will be surprised at the results. I’ve seen perhaps 3 or 4 failures of this in new hardware. DRAM is not perfect.