Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by fnl on Sunday January 07, 2018 @07:41AM
(#16090660)
Excellent summary of the core issue. Though I think there should be room for some nature vs. nurture debate. Exclusively attributing this behaviour to our genes seems a bit like the "lazy excuse" to me. I don't see why properly educating ourselves could not lead to a population with improved inter-group empathy (or both, i.e., trigger that evolution at the generic level, too). But yes, maybe changing our educational system is as hard as finding a genetic engineering-based solution...
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by Niksko on Sunday January 07, 2018 @07:59AM
(#16090712)
I agree with you and the grandparent partly, but if you take an intersectional view of diversity issues, solving diversity and (as you put it) increasing inter-group empathy are effectively one in the same. For me, the constant rearing of this connection (societal scale problems being solved in tandem by solving other societal scale problems) is what convinces me that ideas of intersectionality are real, but sadly leads to the conclusion that yes, the problems are extremely difficult and operate on generational scales.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by fnl on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:56PM
(#16092342)
The upside here being that societal evolution seems to be accelerating, just as nearly everything else.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by insickness on Sunday January 07, 2018 @09:53AM
(#16091019)
It's equally as lazy to exclusively attribute behavior to social construct. Yet this is now the status quo: blank slate theory, where any public figure would be excoriated for suggesting that genes may be a factor in the difference in representation anywhere.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by noobermin on Sunday January 07, 2018 @12:28PM
(#16091637)
Didn't get that at all from their comment that there isn't room for nature vs. nuture, because they just mentioned statistics. Statistically significant variations between groups are not all due to nature. For example, it is a generally supported fact that differences in IQ are due to environment more than innate differences. Of course, it plays into it, but what one observes in life of course is a norm a vector across a huge dimensional space.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by Symmetry on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:37PM
(#16092223)
Nate Silver has written a lot on his blog recently about how difficult it is to get people to think statistically. As an example, when he predicted Trump had a 30% chance of winning people complained that he was wrong because he had said Hillary would win and she hand't. Likewise, I fear that if you tell people that Group A is 20% more likely to X than group B what will be remembered is that A's do X but Bs don't.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by Veedrac on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:54PM
(#16092328)
> All of this is probably just an inherent flaw in human cognition, and likely unfixable, without some kind of attempt at species-wide genetic engineering that completely reconfigures our co-operative behavior.
The rationality community would argue that this is solvable through education, perhaps even that it is a symptom of poor education.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by sturgill on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:41PM
(#16092245)
This exists in all human interactions. A simple example, take this political posturing: "This bill is too complicated; we haven't had time to read it. This is too important to be rushed."
Reference to health care or tax reform?
It's hard not to conclude that everyone is a hypocrite.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by lazyasciiart on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:45PM
(#16092269)
It's a lot easier when you look at the actual differences in the two examples. Could you give me the timeline of the two bills?
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by thrill on Sunday January 07, 2018 @09:59AM
(#16091037)
"people readily engage in broad, often negative, stereotyping about groups they oppose"
Ahh...DYSWYDT?
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by noobermin on Sunday January 07, 2018 @12:25PM
(#16091620)
The only problem I have is people often say this as if "both sides do it" while that neglects the reality of the intensity of depth of hypocrisy you point out on either side. There isn't a symmetry here between the bigotry of the right and the intolerance of the left, and I get very suspicious of people who make a false symmetry argument.
Re:The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer
by dcow on Sunday January 07, 2018 @02:01PM
(#16092055)
Well then, what does this imbalance look like to you? I suspect it looks different to me (rhetorical statement I have no idea which side you're on). I too feel like we miss some interesting subtlety by claiming both sides do it equally. But really how can we make any progress socially/politically unless we get over it and both agree it happens on both sides? We're never going to find an objective answer "to who does it worst". Let's just stop doing it...
I don't think you can easily have both, and this problem underlies much contemporary political conflict. At its core is a pervasive hypocrisy: people readily engage in broad, often negative, stereotyping about groups they oppose, or are not a member of, while aggressively resisting and resenting any attempt to stereotype about their own group, or groups they favour.
So, in the aftermath of a terrorist attack, some people will make broad statements about Muslims, and the need for collective action within Islam to address religiously motivated violence. Others will reject this, and say Muslims in general cannot be held responsible for the behaviour of a minority of extremists.
Then, in the aftermath of a sexual harassment scandal, some people will make broad statements about men, and the need for collective action by men as a gender to address sexual harassment and sexual violence. Others will reject this, and say men in general cannot be held responsible for the behaviour of a minority of harassers.
Oftentimes, the same people will be on the complete opposite sides of each debate. And they will unthinkingly employ language and rhetorical tactics in one that they would utterly reject in the other. This behavior can be seen in almost all discussions across or about political affiliation, race, religion, gender, sexuality, and just about any other cleavage you can think of.
This is the real empathy gap. People reflexively respond to any criticism of their own groups with hostility, while attacking others without restraint, and dismissing hostility from members of that group as an overreaction. They recognise a degree of individuality and diversity within their own favored groups that they simply can't or won't recognise in others. They use tactics against their enemies that infuriate them when used against themselves. In some cases, they may recognise that those tactics are wrong in specific cases, and even in the abstract, but defend their use by themselves or their allies with excuses based on cambatting political correctness or appeals to historical victimhood.
Making all of this worse is that statistical thinking about groups is a necessary of component of any mature political debate. Certain traits or behaviors often are more prevalent within some groups, for a variety of reasons, and being able to recognise and talk about this is basic prerequisite for any attempt to address social and political problems.
In theory, people should have no problem recognising statistical differences in a group, while also recognising and respecting the inherent right and diversity of individuals within that group. In theory, people should be able to hear comment, even criticism, about their own groups, and judge it purely on its statistical reality, without feeling that it is a personal slight upon them. But in practice, this doesn't happen.
Besides the reflexivite hostility discussed, statistical thinking often does give way to blind stereotyping amongst outside observers, and this stereotyping gives rise to discrimination. Causal factors are ignored, or distorted, and adaptive traits are portrayed and inherent, and vice versa. Instead of helping to inform rational debate, this discrimination entrenches and exacerbates division. Soon, any statistical thinking about a group that carries an implied or perceived criticism becomes tantamount to discrimination, and groups become hypersensitive to it.
All of this is probably just an inherent flaw in human cognition, and likely unfixable, without some kind of attempt at species-wide genetic engineering that completely reconfigures our co-operative behavior.