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Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by yborg on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:52PM (#16063172)
I'm old enough to remember when the fad was taking supplemental Vitamin A and E as 'antioxidants' to reduce cancer risk. Then long term studies in Sweden on Vitamin A showed it actually increased risk, at least for lung cancer. I would be hesitant to go all-in on Vitamin D loading until such studies have been done here. There is a good reason why medicine is conservative - first, do no harm.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:40PM (#16063701)
> There is a good reason why medicine is conservative

Let's be honest, medicine is not just conservative for this reason. It's also because of inertia, politics, economics, stereotypes, and the fact people don't want to take the blame if the new thing fail. But also because of resources and human limitation.

I had an example recently in my life. I got malaria years ago because I lived in Mali. The medias, all my friends, family and doctors told me 2 things:

- you gotta take your anti malaria pills (nivaquine, lariam, malarone...) for the whole trip cause there is no curative treatment for malaria

- if you get malaria, it's for life

And surely, when I got back home with the parasite, I got hit with a malaria episode from time to time, to remind me it was here. Not funny.

7 years later, I end up having diner with a scientist from the Pasteur Institute in Paris (pretty much the biology equivalent of NASA, but in France). He calmly explained to me that actually you don't have to take your pills for the whole trip. Malarone is a curative drug, and you can just take it when the first symptoms appear. Also, I don't have to keep having malaria episodes for life: they have protocols, again based on simple Malarone, that can get rid of the little bugger.

I took the number of a colleague of his, a tropical disease specialist, and went to the institute. Surprise, everything is true. There is no mystery. No secret.

The information is just there. Scientifically robust. And yet it doesn't reach you.

So now you gotta wonder: what are the other thousands missing informations or misinformations you get every day in medicine ?

And remember how many food facts fad you lived through. Remember that companies spent a lot of money for stuff like "carots are good for sight", "drink milk to grow up", etc. Remember that red meat is considered "Group 1, carcinogenic to humans" by WHO and nobody is talking about it. Remember that it took decades between asbestos being marked as deadly and any move to forbid it.

We need to keep a healthy criticism about medicine. Doctors, after all, are only human.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by ganonm on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:58PM (#16063922)
Totally agree regarding doctors being fallible humans just like the rest of us. If you are diagnosed with a rare disease (or even just a disease that isn't common in your geographical region c.f. Malaria) there is a very good chance that you, if you are reasonably intelligent and have access to the internet, will rapidly become more knowledgeable in the specific details of your illness than your doctor. This is based on anecdotal evidence of mine through experiences friends and family have had, but I suspect it is a common experience.

- your doctor may not be able to spend significant time getting up to speed on all the details and angles of your particular case

- they probably have no idea about what clinical trials you might be eligible for

- they won't be as emotionally invested in the outcome as you. For most experienced doctors it becomes just a job the best you can hope for is that they are highly professional and take pride in their patient outcome record

- they may misdiagnose you or offer inappropriate or downright counter-productive treatment

- not all doctors are of equal ability. This applies to doctors just the same as any other profession, albeit the minimum bar to entry is usually strictly enforced in most countries

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by phonon on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:54PM (#16064453)
> He calmly explained to me that actually you don't have to take your pills for the whole trip. Malarone is a curative drug, and you can just take it when the first symptoms appear.

Huh?

A. It's always better to prevent an infection in the first place than to treat one that has already occured.

B. Malarone is not a 100% effective treatment, there have been reported resistant cases to treatment.

C. There are reasons the CDC develops guidelines. Don't ignore them frivolously.

https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/travelers/

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:16PM (#16066404)
Well, given the serious side effects of Malarone, if you stay 2 years in Africa, you probably don't want to pop it like M&N's.

A medical act is always a balance between the costs and the benefits of it.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by phonon on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:15PM (#16067991)
Again, the CDC makes recommendations for that scenario as well; these are guidelines written by people who spend their entire lives studying and treating these diseases.

Imagine if someone who read a few articles about programming started to debate with you about the relative merits of direct SQL use vs. ORM--he might say "ORM c'est de la merde." I'm sure you would explain there are tradeoffs, it depends what you are trying to accomplish, etc. Experts in a field establish guidelines for a reason.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2018/advising-travel...

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by sametmax on Thursday January 04, 2018 @02:54AM (#16068693)
You keep saying that but you haven't read the document. Basically it says 'there are pros and cons' but we still recommend the drug. Very little explanation on to why, and on that consequences on long term use of the drug. There is basically zero study there on the consequences on what they advice, just educated guesses and they tell you "yeah do it but check with a doctor regularly". This is not science.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by phonon on Thursday January 04, 2018 @07:02AM (#16069693)
That's why there's a bibliography on the bottom. Review the source material they relied upon.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by sametmax on Thursday January 04, 2018 @12:10PM (#16071981)
Not justifying conclusion, saying "check with experts" and giving away sources is not a proper medical recommendation.

It's like me writing a report to my client on "should you use an HTTP API", ending up with "probably yes but it depends so check with you local web dev" and sourcing O'Reilly books. It's political correct bullshit: as the expert, it's my job to not only give a strong actionable conclusion, but to justify the hell out of it.

Have you read the list of possible side effects of the drug ?

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/malarone-side-effects.html

This is a very active product.

If you advice somebody to take it PREVENTIVELY when you are healthy, not even mentioning on a long period of time, you better have a really compelling case.

Not just "meh, yeah do it".

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by pbhjpbhj on Thursday January 04, 2018 @12:28PM (#16072118)
>Review the source material they relied upon. //

Isn't the point of orgs like the CDC that individual citizens, who aren't experienced in the field, don't have to attempt to analyse the data for themselves; experienced people with expertise who are demonstrably not biased by commercial interests, should be giving you a simple result that anyone with a 11+ yo reading comprehension can follow and know they're doing what most experts would recommend.

If the advice differs from other country's health organisations, or from the WHO's then they should say why.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by ghggu6666 on Thursday January 04, 2018 @10:53AM (#16071250)
Having claimed to have gone to a tropical disease expert, what lead you to believe a link to info meant for broad consumption is more accurate?

Is there science to undermine the CDC’s positions? Sound possible. What’s the process for updating that site?

The government recommended flossing for years then retracted it recently when it turned out there was no science to back it up. Seems the industry had been peddling the notion and it got on a government document

Not saying this is the case with malaria but there’s history for it

The drug industry doesn’t make money when someone is cured. Again, no evidence for that, just history of “hmm maybe government information isn’t iron clad”

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by legulere on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:07PM (#16064004)
> Remember that red meat is considered "Group 1, carcinogenic to humans" by WHO

The WHO carcinogenic groups are about the probability of something being carcinogenic, not about how big the carcinogenic effect is.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by e40 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:05PM (#16065130)
What you describe is just how humans behave. It's frustrating, for sure.

For example, I got the flu a couple of weeks ago. I had a low-level fever and wondered, should I take something to lower the fever, or not? I Googled it and found hardcore research papers on the subject which basically said there is a narrow set of circumstances where reducing a fever is warranted, but most of the time you should not do it. It was clear that for my circumstance, I should not lower the fever artificially. A lot of the Google hits said the opposite, though. It seems the information is out there and has been for many years, but what does every Dr I've ever talked with told me to do? Lower the fever.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by sametmax on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:17PM (#16066414)
Well, the fever is useful to fight the desease, so keeping it up (unless it's becoming life threatening) may help you heal faster.

But most people want comfort. Or just be productive. Or have obligations. And a fever sucks for that.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by maxerickson on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:54PM (#16063863)
Here's a source that makes it clear enough that malaria can be cured:

https://www.cdc.gov/malaria/about/faqs.html

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by StavrosK on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:58PM (#16063921)
Is red meat really considered carcinogenic?
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by idoh on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:13PM (#16064055)
I looked it up here: https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/general-info/kno...

- consumption of processed meat is Group 1: Carcinogenic to humans

- consumption of red meat is Group 2A: Probably carcinogenic to humans

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by Pete_D on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:11PM (#16064033)
I hadn't seen this before, but it turns out the WHO has a FAQ on it.

http://who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by aviv on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:10PM (#16064020)
Depends on your definition of red meat - grass-fed or grain-fed? Two completely different animals. Literally.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by GordonS on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:01PM (#16064504)
I... don't think you know what 'literally' means?
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by alvah on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:23PM (#16065306)
He actually has a point, though it was poorly made. The Omega 3: Omega 6 ratio of grass fed & grain fed beef are vastly different. If you subscribe to any of the ancestral diet theories, the difference in ratios is enough to make grass fed very good, and grain fed very bad.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by GordonS on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:46PM (#16065514)
Do you know if the Omega 3:6 ratio have any effect on the carcinogenic properties of read meat?
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by aviv on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:00PM (#16065089)
I'll give you an example. You took my comment too literally and completely missed the point.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by thiswonthurt on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:05PM (#16063980)
there are a LOT of vegan proselytizers on HN who will slip a casual off-hand remark like that into a large seemingly un-related comment.

they pop up in every nutrition thread like clockwork, especially those that involve low carb discussion. but looks like vitamin supplementation is not a topic they shy away from either.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by orf on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:48PM (#16064956)
Apart from the cited sources above I guess.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by derefr on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:16PM (#16063451)
Mind you, what was previously (and mostly still is!) considered “high doses” of vitamim D are actually closer to the RDI than the doses anyone is taking. The RDI for vitamin D was miscalculated as 1/10th its proper value decades ago, and this error was only recently corrected: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150317122458.h...

So when a science journalist—or even most scientists still—say “high doses” of vitamin D, they really mean proper doses of vitamin D. Including in this article! They’re quoting the same improper 600IU RDI standard that the article above refutes, and quoting 4000IU as an abnormal amount rather than being perfectly-well-within the correct RDI value.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:48PM (#16064399)
> Mind you, what was previously (and mostly still is!) considered “high doses” of vitamim D are actually closer to the RDI than the doses anyone is taking. The RDI for vitamin D was miscalculated as 1/10th its proper value decades ago, and this error was only recently corrected:

No, there is a paper claiming that it was miscalculated and should be corrected (and, as another comment notes, there is a later paper calling for a reduction rather than an increase.) The actual current numbers remain (for most age groups):

Estimated Average Requirement: 400IU/day

Recommended Daily Allowance: 600IU/day

Tolerable Upper Intake Level: 4000IU/day

A paper calling for a change in the RDA is not a change in the RDA.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by lossolo on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:45PM (#16064926)
What? There are doctors that are prescribing 2000IU+ daily. I have vitamin D supplements with 2000IU per pill.

I've read lately about multiple papers that propose multiple k of IU per day.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:52PM (#16064990)
> There are doctors that are prescribing 5000IU+ daily

What doctors prescribe based on the actual conditions particular patients exhibit (and, at doses that high, often with serum level monitoring) is only distantly related, even in theory, to population-wide recommendations like the RDA.

> I've read lately about multiple papers that propose multiple k of IU per day.

Yeah, so have I, and I personally think (though I’m not an expert in this field) it's likely that the RDA is way too low. But there's a difference between the belief that RDA should be higher and the claim that the RDA has, in fact, been raised. It has not, it's still 600 IU/day.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by ovao on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:00PM (#16065094)
Doctors may be making those recommendations based on blood tests indicating specific patient deficiencies. As you note, though, research does at least suggest daily vitamin D supplementation in the thousands of IUs per day range may be considered safe.

I'm not a doctor, but I believe if you've been directed by one to supplement vitamin D, blood tests probably should have preceded that recommendation.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by bitL on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:19PM (#16065275)
I was told to take 20,000IU/day, just to be sure. It might be just correlation, but it helped with the issue I had.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by BeetleB on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:10PM (#16065179)
I've had one doctor prescribe me 10K a week. Another one recommended no more than 400/day.

Doctors do not agree. Some have jumped on the bandwagon, and others believe it is just a bandwagon.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by iooi on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:18PM (#16064662)
Why are most sold supplements in the 3000-5000UI range?
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by amckenna on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:45PM (#16064930)
Vitamin D is fat soluble and isn't cleared by the body as quickly as other vitamins such as B. Therefore it can be taken in higher doses, but less frequently. This is often done for convenience sake. A 3000-5000IU pill every week is easier to remember than a 500-600IU pill every day.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by Tharkun on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:37PM (#16064843)
Vitamin D is fat-soluble and can be stored in body fat. Supplements in the higher range are meant to be taken once a week or once a month. Supplements in the 400-1000IU range are meant to be taken daily.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:32PM (#16064793)
I don't think they are, though there certainly are supplements in that range and higher.

But supplements don't mostly sell based on either science or government recommendations, but fads which are often unrelated to either.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by LMYahooTFY on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:34PM (#16064808)
I'm on mobile at the moment, but I think there is more than just one paper suggesting that Vitamin D RDI is too low, even if they don't explicitly call for raising the official level?

I can dig for links when I'm back at a Desktop.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:54PM (#16065018)
I was referring to the one paper cited in the thread, which was being misrepresented as an actual rather than recommended increases to the official RDA. Yes, there have certainly been more than one paper suggesting that higher Vitamin D intake than the current RDA is desirable, but they have not resulted in the RDA being raised as suggested upthread.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by fao_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:35PM (#16064273)
Interesting, because a paper was released early last year that reduced the RDI for vitamin D by about 1/2

"After re-measurement of vitamin D by improved technology, the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for vitamin D intake drops from 800 to 400 International Units (IU) per day, new research reports."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170403083103.h...

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by naasking on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:47PM (#16064395)
Note the caveat at the end:

> "Remember, this RDA is for bone health only," Gallagher cautioned. "It may be different for other diseases. Although trials looking into cancer, diabetes, and other diseases are ongoing, we do not have information about this yet."

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:51PM (#16064427)
The actual RDA for Vitamin D is set based on bone health, since there is not sufficient data for other conditions it may effect, so that's not a significant caveat when it comes to a recommendation to change the RDA.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by fao_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:01PM (#16064499)
The RDI baseline is always set to bone health. It's an indicator for the general population, not people with illnesses that may increase their RDI amount.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by naasking on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:14PM (#16064628)
Except Vitamin D influences more than just bone health, and the recent research suggesting we should increase recommended dosages has centered on that.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:49PM (#16064417)
No, it reduced what the same authors recommended the RDA should be based on the same researchers previous work by half, but that's only a reduction by a third from what the actual RDA is.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by fao_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:58PM (#16064475)
Please read the study. They tested at what the earlier study listed as a "correct" level of Vitamin D, and the tests showed that the lower amount was correct.

"The participants were randomized to one of seven vitamin D3 doses: 400, 800, 1600, 2400, 3200, 4000, 4800 IU/day or placebo, for 1 year, and all the women were given calcium supplements to maintain a total calcium intake."

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by dragonwriter on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:12PM (#16064597)
> Please read the study

I did. The earlier study cited recommended the RDA should be 800, this study recommends 400; that cuts it by half from the earlier study.

The actual government issued RDA, now and at the time of the study, however, is 600, not 800, so it's only recommending the actual RDA be reduced by 1/3, not 1/2.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by Nomentatus on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:27PM (#16066486)
2017 (relies on earlier studies cited.) The Big Vitamin D Mistake https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5541280/
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by gojomo on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:25PM (#16064175)
In terms of importance in interpreting this result, this comment should be the top-voted, top-level comment.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by Pete_D on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:29PM (#16064214)
Out of curiosity, I looked up the effects of taking too much vitamin D, and:

> Recent epidemiologic evidence suggests that there is a narrow range of vitamin D levels in which vascular function is optimized. Levels above or below this range increased mortality.[14] Animal research suggests that both excess and deficiency of vitamin D appears to cause abnormal functioning and premature aging.[42][43][44]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervitaminosis_D

There's a bigger subsection on cardiovascular disease too, but all I can understand from it is "it's complicated".

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by slezyr on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @03:29PM (#16064757)
Yep. Sounds a lot like with radiation. With it we will get cancer, without it we will get cancer.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by gwern on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:55PM (#16063873)
All-cause mortality in Vitamin D RCTs is consistently lower in the vitamin D groups: https://www.gwern.net/docs/vitamind/2014-bolland.pdf
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by mtgx on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:46PM (#16063790)
First off, if you're so skeptical, then at least get a 25(OH)D level blood test. If you're under 32 ng/ml (80 nmol/l) that's bad. You don't even get the absolute minimum necessary not to get sick very often. The benefits start showing up from 40 and above. Strongest benefits seem to be around 55 ng/ml, and toxicity starts around 66 ng/ml. To get to 40 ng/ml you need around 9000 IU (240 mcg) per day.

So get your test, see that you're deficient (very likely), and then I would suggest starting on 5,000 IU per day. Then 6 months later, take another test. See if you've at least passed 40 ng/ml. If you haven't, I'd suggest going to 10,000. Then 6 months later do the test again. See if you're anywhere near the toxicity level. If you aren't, keep taking 10,000, and do the test in another year. See if anything has changed.

This could save your life or at least make you feel way better every day (kind of like how we feel when we're bathing in the sun). See my other comment here for more details on this Vitamin D issue.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by exhilaration on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:59PM (#16064480)
The benefits start showing up from 40 and above. Strongest benefits seem to be around 55 ng/ml, and toxicity starts around 66 ng/ml.

I'm curious, do you have a source for this or a link where I could read more about recommended levels? I got a blood test in April and it was 27.7 ng/mL, I've upped my intake to around 2700 IU per day but don't really have a 25(OH)D target in mind.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by walshemj on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:55PM (#16064462)
Well its only personal experience but I am on a lot of immuno suppressant drugs (enough so the flu jab wouldn't work on me) and 20k IU Vit D a week. Fingers crossed I don't seem to have had a winter cold this year.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by m0llusk on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:41PM (#16066596)
That is true, but this situation is very different. Vitamin D is very much unlike other vitamins and is arguably a steroid more than a vitamin. The body does not make its own and is not very good at taking it up. Large amounts of Vitamin D have been studied for a while and do not show the risks that other vitamins do including multivitamins. Vitamin D supplementation has been shown to have a broad range of positive effects including reducing cancer and incidents of flu and common cold.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by maxerickson on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:46PM (#16066630)
Vitamin D is synthesized in the skin when it is exposed to sunlight. That means that it technically isn't a vitamin (a necessary dietary component).
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by pbhjpbhj on Thursday January 04, 2018 @12:35PM (#16072179)
>Vitamin D supplementation has been shown to have a broad range of positive effects //

So it should be supplemented rather than acquired through diet? Is there some mechanism that makes it less beneficial to eat foods with VitD rather than to supplement?

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by raverbashing on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:53PM (#16063859)
While this happens, vitamin A always "gave some clues" it wasn't all that good in higher doses. (Accutane is kinda like a controlled "overdose" of Vit A for medical purposes)

Other vitamins behave differently, especially depending if they're fat-soluble or water-soluble (and also what we call Vitamins are several different substances)

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by JoshMnem on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:16PM (#16063447)
RE: Vitamin E, see "Selenium, vitamin E supplements increase prostate cancer risk"

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/selenium-vitamin-e-suppl...

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by acchow on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @01:38PM (#16063681)
So, basically correlation studies are bullshit.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by jjoe on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:02PM (#16063949)
Vitamin D is a steroid hormone. Its potential impact on the body is substantial.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by Fuzzgun on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:18PM (#16064102)
first, do no harm.

First Law: A medicine may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Second Law: A medicine must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

Third Law: A medicine must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.

Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by amelius on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @02:55PM (#16064461)
The Hippocratic oath was there long before Asimov's laws.
Re:High doses of vitamin D rapidly reduce arterial stiffness by Fuzzgun on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @05:48PM (#16066136)
And this song predates the Hippocratic oath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtaSiGD_SVI