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Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by mmjaa on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:47AM (#16060521)
Seriously un-true. Just this weekend I set up a friends old, aging laptop with a fresh Ubuntu Studio install, and .. everything just works. Video playback, drivers for everything. Seriously! Even multi-screen (i.e. projector) extensions, and so on. We watched movies with it all weekend, just plain ol' Ubuntu Studio.

So, anecdotal stories are yarns, yo.

(I say this as an Ubuntu and macOS developer, thus user: its functionally a point where Ubuntu could un-seat macOS in terms of ease of use, on .. admittedly a very much wider range of hardware.)

As for the MacBook hegemony, I point my wavy hands at things like the GPD Pocket, and its future off-spring.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by meneame2 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @08:25AM (#16060742)
Ubuntu is now really polished, and works great if you cherry pick hardware a bit and avoid components with drivers that are not in the kernel.

But I'd go one step further and argue that, as a developer, Linux can give you a unique experience if you stick to its strengths:

* Use a minimal distribution with few moving parts -> Things rarely break, and if something does it's usually easy to fix

* Try functional package management and administration (NixOS) -> Easy to reproduce setups, trivial to rollback, no dependency hell

* Try a simple keyboard-driven desktop -> A tiling window manager (XMonad), a web browser (Firefox) and Emacs (with Org, Magit, Eshell, Dired, Notmuch...) work incredibly well

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by regularfry on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:28AM (#16061193)
This in response to an otherwise very positive experience report that singles out a fault in what should be a really, really boring, unexciting, stable subsystem on "known good" hardware that somehow, in 2018, is still not working fluidly. Seriously, if you're cherry-picking hardware, I think you could be forgiven for landing on this laptop, and yet it doesn't work in a fairly obvious way.
Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by ufo on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:26AM (#16061176)
I don't think this agrees with the parent post. Niche package managers and window managers are precisely the sort of thing that you need to fiddle for an hour to get the projector to work or install some software that isn't packaged.

I do agree that the freedom of choice that you are mentioning is a great benefit of Linux and FOSS software in general, though.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by gigatexal on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @08:42AM (#16060851)
Is there much that doesn’t have a kernel module? I know some can’t be included because of licensing and such like some WiFi hardware but then distros could just compile all drives as modules and hot plug them at boot no? (I bet this is what happens anyway)
Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by meneame2 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:00AM (#16062052)
For example, many Broadcom network cards do not have decent drivers. These are really common.
Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by tn_ on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:16AM (#16061105)
I've probably spent a couple of hours last month trying to resolve sound driver related issues where my headphone jack stopped working on Ubuntu 16.04. Also, my dual monitor set-up randomly stopped working.. this was during a deadline so I ended up coding with my thinkpad screen for the entirety of a day. This is my work machine. These are the exact same problems I faced 10 years ago when I was using Ubuntu. Completely unacceptable. Macs + Windows are miles ahead more stable than Ubuntu.
Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by olyjohn on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:20PM (#16062844)
Honestly, I see this same stuff on Windows constantly. Our 50+ Windows devs still struggle to hook up to projectors, extra monitors, docks, etc. Sound drops out during meetings, sound devices lock up and require reboots. The worst thing really is the new updating process, which despite configuring it to not reboot during the day, it does so anyways. Some of these updates have taken 2+ hours to install. Can't even use the computer at all. Not to mention, many of these updates end up breaking components despite our best efforts at testing.
Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by wazoox on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @11:46AM (#16062540)
And every now and then, on my old macBook USB stops working and I need to unplug everything (MIDI interfaces, audio, disk drives). Annoying as hell when you open Cubase and it can't see any of your setup.

On the other hand I never had any serious issue with my XPS running Ubuntu, or my desktop PCs (running Linux exclusively since 2003). So YMMV, and the plural of anecdote isn't statistics. On my book, Linux works largely better and more predictably than MacOS by a large margin.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by jorvi on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:33AM (#16061230)
> its functionally a point where Ubuntu could un-seat macOS in terms of ease of use

And this is in turn is seriously un-true.

* With my Macbook, I can be almost ironclad certain that if I close the lid to sleep, it will wake up. With Ubuntu (or any Linux really) you have 99,5% certainty, which is great, until it isn't and you lose work.

* Battery life if still miles behind macOS+Macbook levels unless you compromise somewhere (resolution, portability, etc.)

* Apple is quite a heavy-handed overlord that pushes changes through, and developers have to adapt or die to them. Ubuntu has no such power.

* Most macOS developers also 'naturally' stick to platform conventions, so all applications feel at home and look and work as expected

* The ease-of-use of Apple's 'global menu' cannot be overstated. It may not matter much to techies, but for my mother or grandma the fact that 'Print' is always under 'File' and 'File' is in the menu bar regardless of which application is being used is magic. Same goes for 'Edit', 'View', etc. They never have to hunt for these things again[1]

That's not to mention Touchpad gestures, Spaces (best implementation of virtual desktops), scaling, font rendering, updates that rarely if ever bork everything, ecosystem integration with your phone and tablet (Continuity, shared copy-paste and remotely-triggered tethering are a godsend), etc. etc.

Now if you were touting that Linux is much easier to tweak exactly to your liking, I'd heartily agree. But even today, I'd much rather recommend someone a Macbook than have them deal with the headache that Linux desktop _can_ be.

[1] Yes I know Ubuntu had a global menu. They nixed it, and the Gnome extension is a hack that doesn't work for everything

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by seba_dos1 on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @12:08PM (#16062725)
With my girlfriend's Macbook, we can never be sure that if its lid is closed to sleep, it will wake up. With linuxes on my laptops, it always does.

Of course it doesn't prove anything, but simply reminds that YMMV.

Updates are always breaking something, to the point I had to convince her to update to (High) Sierra, so I could install new Xcode, because she didn't want to.

Font rendering is ugly, too bold, I can't look at it. Touchpad is somewhat acceptable - I've used both better and worse. Spaces aren't really useful. But those of course are up to personal taste.

I had some contact with OS X somewhere around Tiger and Yosemite. I had some contact with iOS somewhere around 7.0. I do remember them as quite stable and problem-free, although not really the most usable nor exciting for me personally. Recently I started to have contact with newest macOS and newest iOS, and damn, it feels like every mention of "not having to deal with headaches" regarding those OSes is as poor joke. There are so many of small glitches and annoyances, bugs and poor UX decisions, that I really feel like my Arch is more polished, and that's something. Not even speaking about phones.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by StavrosK on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:51AM (#16061388)
> Spaces (best implementation of virtual desktops)

Oh man, how? Virtual desktops where alt+tab doesn't cycle through windows only on the current desktop are completely broken (they're just a large virtual screen), and last I used Spaces there was no option to change this.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by jorvi on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @04:01PM (#16065096)
The fact that they've chosen to go with a horizontal-only grid (instead of both horizontal and vertical) simplifies everything greatly and makes switching to another Space a breeze: either swipe with 3 fingers or press ctrl+left/right or (if enabled) press ctrl+Spaces number.

As far as your point goes: it depends on if you see your Spaces as isolated desktops, or just 'more desktop space' which you can then loosely thematically organise. I fall into the latter category, and I suspect as Apple has chosen that cmd-tab style because most people do.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by StavrosK on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @06:37PM (#16066565)
Why does the size of the grid matter? In Linux, you can press mod+arrow key to move to the desired desktop, no matter the layout.

If you just want more desktop space, why not alt-tab between programs? They're all going to show on the same screen, anyway. Even disregarding all this, the fact that Apple didn't even give me the simple option of hiding programs on other spaces from alt-tab was one of the main reasons that made me switch to Linux.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by jorvi on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:31PM (#16066881)
That’s true for 4 desktops, but what once you start having 8? Or 10? Having a row instead of a grid keeps things simple, both in terms of gestures, shortcuts and mentally. For me, I like functional simplicity like that, especially when I know Apple put a lot of thought (and probably some UI focus groups) on it.

As far as Apple not giving you the simple switch.. that’s just how Apple is. Again, I like it, because it means any Mac or iPhone I pick up I can instantly work on.. with Linux, the shortcuts differ even between Ubuntu and Fedora! That unified ‘foundation’ gives developers a solid base they can bolt stuff onto. For example, Spectacle. Its a sort-of window manager that would never work if it had to keep dozens of key configurations in mind.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by StavrosK on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @07:36PM (#16066908)
Certainly, but I think that's an unfair comparison. You're comparing the single available thing in OS X to the multitude of options available in Linux. If you want consistency, always use the defaults, and they'll always be consistent. That's what Apple forces you to do.
Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by jorvi on Wednesday January 03, 2018 @09:30PM (#16067502)
Wouldn't that cut both ways? If its unfair to laud macOS for its consistency i.e. forced defaults, you likewise cannot laud Linux for its multitude of options i.e. tweakability.

On a sidenote, you needn't have switch to Linux. Command-Tab-Plus[1] has the feature you want ('Isolate applications in Spaces').

[1]http://commandtab.noteifyapp.com

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by StavrosK on Thursday January 04, 2018 @06:23AM (#16069494)
No, "forced defaults" is a trivial definition for consistency, as then everyone could be lauded for being consistent simply by removing all the options. Consistency is presenting a familiar interface despite having options. It's like how you can't have courage when there's nothing to fear.

Thanks for the command-tab-plus shoutout, I later found Witch (IIRC) that did the same, but it was a bunch of annoyances that drove me to switch (no "Cut" in the Finder, homebrew didn't exist, the Spaces thing, etc). I do miss Photoshop and Lightroom, but I have a second Windows partition I use for those.

Re:Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell... by mmjaa on Thursday January 04, 2018 @05:49AM (#16069319)
For every single one of your points, I have a counter-example that is positive to Ubuntu. Seriously! So, its really neither here nor there, in my opinion.

For the last two years I've found Ubuntu Studio a superlative OS to be running on both MacBooks and generic PC workstation/laptop hardware, and I've found the condition and quality - and overall user experience - of both MacOS and Windows to have gone rapidly downhill by comparison.

So, I dunno. You say tomato, I say Ubuntu is awesome.