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Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by pizza234 on Sunday December 31, 2017 @05:09AM (#16040022)
The most interesting opinion about this subject I've read comes from a comment, in the popehat blog, by an experienced military:

  There is plenty of reason to restrict the use of SWAT teams, but not to abolish
  them. They are needed now and then, when there is an actual hostage situation or
  an armed gang that tries to shoot it's way out. They should never be used for
  routine search or arrest warrants. That not only endangers the possibly innocent
  target of the raid, but it undermines the team's training – they become used to
  tearing up houses where no one is resisting. There's a dashboard video of the
  Jose Guerena raid. My drill instructor would have said they looked "like a monkey
  fucking a football" – and I was in the Air Force, ground tactics weren't even on
  the curriculum. I've seen considerably more forceful comments from Army and
  Marine Corps infantrymen who actually have had to break into a house against
  armed defenders. They milled around, exposed themselves to possible fire through
  the open door, and got into each others line of fire. They did NOT identify
  themselves as police that I can hear on the audio track, so Guerena was justified
  in hunkering down in a defensive position with a rifle. If Guerena (a former
  Marine) hadn't been far more professional than any of the cops and not fired
  without identifying his targets, several cops would have been down.

  Then there are the SWAT members that "accidentally" (that is, negligently) fired
  a round and killed an unresisting, unarmed suspect because they tripped or
  bumped their elbow – an accident that can only happen if you are in violation of
  the two most important rules of gun safety: don't put your finger on the trigger
  until you have decided to shoot, and don't point the muzzle near anything that
  you do not intend to shoot. We know they were running around with their finger
  on the trigger – in a situation where there was clearly no need for shooting –
  because modern firearms in good working order just don't fire unless the trigger
  is pulled. The military just doesn't tolerate that. If a non-police civilian in
  my state had done this, he could have been sentenced to life for manslaughter.
  But if you are a cop, you can recklessly kill someone and the prosecutor will
  throw the case…
Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by emacsgifs on Sunday December 31, 2017 @06:18AM (#16040177)
Here's that quoted section without weird formatting:

>

There is plenty of reason to restrict the use of SWAT teams, but not to abolish them. They are needed now and then, when there is an actual hostage situation or an armed gang that tries to shoot it's way out. They should never be used for routine search or arrest warrants. That not only endangers the possibly innocent target of the raid, but it undermines the team's training – they become used to tearing up houses where no one is resisting. There's a dashboard video of the Jose Guerena raid. My drill instructor would have said they looked "like a monkey fucking a football" – and I was in the Air Force, ground tactics weren't even on the curriculum. I've seen considerably more forceful comments from Army and Marine Corps infantrymen who actually have had to break into a house against armed defenders. They milled around, exposed themselves to possible fire through the open door, and got into each others line of fire. They did NOT identify themselves as police that I can hear on the audio track, so Guerena was justified in hunkering down in a defensive position with a rifle. If Guerena (a former Marine) hadn't been far more professional than any of the cops and not fired without identifying his targets, several cops would have been down.

Then there are the SWAT members that "accidentally" (that is, negligently) fired a round and killed an unresisting, unarmed suspect because they tripped or bumped their elbow – an accident that can only happen if you are in violation of the two most important rules of gun safety: don't put your finger on the trigger until you have decided to shoot, and don't point the muzzle near anything that you do not intend to shoot. We know they were running around with their finger on the trigger – in a situation where there was clearly no need for shooting – because modern firearms in good working order just don't fire unless the trigger is pulled. The military just doesn't tolerate that. If a non-police civilian in my state had done this, he could have been sentenced to life for manslaughter. But if you are a cop, you can recklessly kill someone and the prosecutor will throw the case…

Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by pizza234 on Sunday December 31, 2017 @06:52AM (#16040254)
What's rendered weird specifically, on your system?

I'm always very puzzled when I have to do HN quoting/bullet points, so I thought 80-columns code would fit well (evidently, it doesn't).

I also wonder why HN doesn't improve formatting, which has at least a couple of very common problems (the mentioned code and bullet points rendering).

Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by aidos on Sunday December 31, 2017 @07:43AM (#16040375)
When you're on mobile it's almost impossible to read.
Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by u801e on Sunday December 31, 2017 @03:05PM (#16042570)
On my mobile, the text is cut off after the 25th character on each line and the browser doesn't render a horizontal scrollbar preventing me from seeing the right half of each line.

It would be nice if MIME format=flowed was a thing for quoted text on web pages that otherwise would be hard-wrapped.

Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by mratzloff on Sunday December 31, 2017 @07:46AM (#16040377)
Unreadable on iPhone and potentially other mobile devices.
Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by emacsgifs on Thursday January 04, 2018 @03:55AM (#16068883)
When you indent the text by two spaces it renders as a pre block.

On mobile this will mean only about 35 columns are visible at once.

Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by themark on Sunday December 31, 2017 @10:32AM (#16040915)
Firefox on iPad: needed to scroll right to left
Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by bryanrasmussen on Sunday December 31, 2017 @10:09AM (#16040820)
it's formatted as code, which is slightly weird but does not really decrease legibility for me.
Re:LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting c... by kiallmacinnes on Sunday December 31, 2017 @05:24AM (#16040051)
This comment makes a lot of sense to me. SWAT / Armed police aren't inherently a bad thing. There are cases where they are needed, we're just overusing and undertraining officers.

I'm Irish, so while we do have some branches of the police who are armed, most are not. I wonder how the armed Irish Gardi would stack up training wise against armed American cops (ignoring the fact that every state / city would be different..).

Would our limiting of arms to a smaller group result in better training and responses? Or are they just as likely to mis-fire and fail to identify themselves?