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Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by qaq on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:09PM (#16026661)
Who are these magical "they" we own Apple we vote in people in congress and on and on.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by freeflight on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:39PM (#16026847)
That's quite a simplification of the situation. While shareholders technically "own" a company, they usually don't have that much influence over a companies policies.

This holds even more true with matters that will cost the company a lot of money while giving no added value to the shareholders, such as those externalized costs by polluting the environment.

Why would any Apple shareholder willingly take a hit to their portfolio just for a "nice feeling in the tummy about having done the right thing"? Not to mention that with most publicly traded companies there's only one "right thing": Increase shareholder value, everything is optimized around that and pretty much only that.

And sure you can vote people into Congress, but what leverage do you have that those people actually stick to their word once they are there? Imho that's one of the major flaws with most representative democracies: There's only positive voting, you can't "vote out" people who didn't hold up their end, you can only try to replace them with somebody who got more votes and hope he/she keeps their word.

In the end, this is also a question of how do we want our economies to be built: For supposedly perpetual gains and growth or for a sustainability which accounts for the actual scarcity of resources not easily measured and accounted for, like a clean environment.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by manigandham on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:22PM (#16026748)
Politicians in the US do not do what their constituency wants. This is before getting into the numerous issues like gerrymandering, lobbying, lack of education and informed public, propaganda and social media, etc.

As far as owning Apple, unless you are a major (read: majority) holder, good luck trying to make any difference because the actual majority holders want the profits, and they are not (as much) concerned about the externalities involved.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by omegaworks on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:38PM (#16026844)
> Politicians in the US do not do what their constituency wants.

Actually they do, if enough of them care loudly enough to organize and push back. Constituent participation in the ACA Repeal debate earlier this year caused the measure to fail. They had to sneak a small, partial repeal into the huge tax bill they just passed. When the dust settles, blowback from that sneak might cost more then a few their jobs.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by Retric on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:51PM (#16026889)
99+% of all laws by content are not going to enter the public's awareness. Aka, if a tax bill is 1000 pages people may notice 10 pages worth of changes at the very high end, but that's about it. The average is far worse with many bills especially at the state or local level simply ignored in their entirety.

In practice this basically rounds to zero on most issues, especially over time.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by zdragnar on Thursday December 28, 2017 @09:55PM (#16027157)
That's why people largely vote on lines of ideology and hot-button issues; they're (ostensibly) voting on character and judgement, leaving the minutiae to Congress and bureaucrats to figure out.

Otherwise, what's the point of Congress if we aren't going to leave it to them to figure things out?

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by pishpash on Thursday December 28, 2017 @11:40PM (#16027575)
The point is there should not be a far-away Congress with such large powers. It worked when there were 13 states clustered along one coast. Now it's its own empire-building entity with little practical oversight.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by rootw0rm on Friday December 29, 2017 @03:55AM (#16028464)
Truth.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by raquo on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:22PM (#16026742)
What's your point? Neither you nor me personally can tell Apple what to do, and certainly not congress.

That's the point of my pessimism – modifying your own behaviour does not make any difference. Even if millions of people boycotted iPhones that would still be a smaller loss for Apple than changing how they're doing things, because doing things right is suicidally expensive when most of your customers don't care. An even smaller loss would be doing some marketing to make most of boycotters ambivalent enough to forget the whole thing.

Using Apple just as an example, could be any company or government.

Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by qaq on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:33PM (#16026818)
We can't because we do not care enough. You don't have to boycott Apple largest apple shareholders are pension funds so intermediaries owning shares of Apple on your behalf.
Re:A Message to Our Customers about iPhone Batteries and Per... by raquo on Thursday December 28, 2017 @08:49PM (#16026883)
> We can't because we do not care enough

There's a difference between "me" and "we". "We", the majority, could, if we cared. "I", alone or even in a sizeable minority group, can't make a difference, regardless of how much I care.

People can certainly be very self centered, but a big part of this _collective_ culture of either caring or not caring for various things has been manufactured entirely artificially by governments and corporations alike.