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Re:On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything by jdietrich on Saturday December 23, 2017 @12:37AM (#15993071)
Alcohol has some of the worst negative externalities of any drug of abuse. It's a causal factor in a huge proportion of road traffic accidents and domestic violence. It kills about 88,000 Americans annually due to overdose, accidents and chronic illness. Typical recreational doses are inherently toxic.

When we criminalized alcohol, the negative externalities got worse. Gangsters murdered each other in the street for control over distribution. The profits from bootlegging were funnelled into other organised crime. People were blinded and killed by adulterated booze. Billions of dollars were lost in tax revenues. The overall consumption rate towards the end of prohibition was only about 30% lower than before.

The evidence is clear - criminalisation kills. Unless you're in a totalitarian regime with closed borders, you can't stop people from taking drugs. What you can do is effectively regulate the drug market, provide proper care and support services and minimise the harms to drug users.

Re:On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything by belorn on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:47AM (#15994910)
Criminalizing alcohol is a bad way for society to recover the cost associated with it. Social factors mean that enforcement becomes poor and very selective, you lose tax revenues so there is less money in the short term to use for enforcement, and as you said the evidence is clear.

Instead there seems to be two effective strategies, both used for alcohol and tobacco, which is taxation and state monopolies. Taking Sweden as an example, the taxation is made per liter of sold alcohol. The stronger (and assuming bigger effect on society), the more society demand in compensation. Depending on the drink and original price, the tax can actually become several times higher.

Here the money is ear marked for things such as reducing traffic accidents and domestic violence. If the cost are increased you simply increase the tax. Police has a strong incentive to catch this form of tax evasion as part of the money goes to them, and social norms are rather accepting since only poor people are disproportional effected by the price increase.

Similar for state monopoly, the state has a direct incentive to punish would-be completion. From a social perspective, my guess is that people are rather used to monopolies. Each year there is more and more merges leaving fewer companies that actually compete, and naturally prices goes up. Regardless if it is an icecream, a fridge, gass, a phone, a moive, or a news paper, you can best that most products is made by just a handful global companies, or a single one.

And as for the effect, there seems to be a fair correlation to heavy taxation and decrease use. The tax has never been as high in Sweden as now and the use has never been so low.

Re:On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything by lawl on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:31PM (#15995491)
Finland, not sweden, but taxation seems to be a shitty solution too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilju

> Due to its low cost and simple production process, kilju is mostly drunk by low-income people or heavy drinkers, such as students and alcoholics.

Re:On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything by belorn on Sunday December 24, 2017 @06:01AM (#15999019)
Home made wine (up to 20%) is legal to make and drink also in Sweden, but it is illegal to sell. In general I think there is a few limiting factors in play:

Students generally rush the process and the quality and taste is terrible.

Car ownership among students is down and on campus there is fewer reason to drive.

The culture is generally focused on hard spirits and beer, not wine.

Re:On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything by zxcmx on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:32AM (#15993435)
I agree, and I generally support "regulation" of drugs rather than criminalisation.

I don't think that an unfettered free market is the right solution though since addiction robs people of the kind of agency we typically assume people have in free market exchanges. That, plus an awareness of social externalities.

Re:On the Darknet, Reputation Is Everything by jiggunjer on Saturday December 23, 2017 @10:24AM (#15994454)
Your argument is not correct. You shouldn't argue that criminalizing kills, if you are against it you should argue it kills/harms more than regulating. That is harder to prove with the prohibition period data.